MMM findings

[Cymmina]

Other than the wiki numbers for Voucher 01, there's not a whole lot of TbV (100) information out there. The JP Wiki (google translate) is guessing a 30% bonus to marbles for Voucher 06, which is the best voucher for farming marbles.

I'm nearly done farming marbles (6500/17400 to go!), so I decided I would start charting the bonus marbles from TbV. At first I figured it was static, that you would get +X depending on how quickly you finished. After only a few runs, I realized that wasn't the case.

M     57     55     53     47     46
5                   16        
6     18            16     15
7     18                   15    
8     18            15     15
9     12     12     11            10
10    12     12     11        
11                  11     10    
12    12              
13                  6        
14    6                    5
15    6                    5      5
16    3                    3
17                    
18                    
19                    
20                    


Maze rune setups
57:	2, 9, 10, 11, 16, 76, 100, 103, 113
55:	2, 9, 10, 11, 16, 100, 103, 113
53:	2, 9, 10, 16, 72, 100, 103, 113
47:	2, 9, 10, 11, 16, 94, 100, 113
46:	2, 9, 10, 16, 94, 100, 103, 113

I have access to 2 additional mazes other than my own (my husband's account and his mule). He wants to continue using Lost and Found (094) and his mule is missing rune 011. That's why I've got different rune setups. A blank Voucher 06 gives 40 marbles.

Times were determined using Zone Timer and offsetting it by 20 seconds. If I finished the maze at 10:20, then I recorded it as 11 minutes. Times are listed as "less than 5 minutes", "less than 10 minutes". Most of the time, I clear Voucher 06 in 10-14 minutes, but I did get a lucky run where I cleared it in under 5.

I don't have a lot of numbers yet, but I have enough information to show that it varies depending on the marble value of the other runes on the Tabula. Assuming you can clear it in under 15 minutes, it should be at least as good as any runes other than 002, 009, 010, 011 for the number of tiles it takes up.

[Cantih]

The other handy thing about this one is you can do it solo.
So if you're in need of marbles, and nobody you know gives a shit about MMM, this might be the voucher for you.

[Cymmina]

The other handy thing about this one is you can do it solo.
So if you're in need of marbles, and nobody you know gives a shit about MMM, this might be the voucher for you.

Except Voucher 06 is also soloable (I consistently clear in 10-15 minutes) and offers 40 marbles on a blank voucher, while Voucher 05 gives 25.

The only reason to farm this maze for marbles is because you want both the belt and marbles or you know other people who want belts and you can take advantage their mazes to get extra marbles.

[ClarkSammich]

What's the general consensus on exp mazes using both bird and demon paired with tiny warrior? It would increase the pool of small type monsters to choose from, as well as the potential 10+ demon spawns. Are ahriman terrible?

Also, would creating a thread in the MMM section solely for exp mazes be worthwhile? Something like a guide for the generic bird maze and maybe manaburn mazes, then a discussion for them, since this thread is enormous and difficult to sift through.

[urat]

Im surprised someone hasn't yet, I would but I don't do MMM exp mazes often.

Someone will soon I suppose...

[ronin sparthos]

By popular demand, here is a quick tutorial on how to build your own EXP maze, use a duplicated maze and what to expect.

Brief Overview
Assuming you have not previously done MMM you will be visiting Duplidoc in order to satisfy your maze needs. He's located inside the Junk Store @(H-9).

Mazes cost 500 gil and can be used up to five times each. Talking to Duplidoc will bring up an option to "View Copyable Mazes" then you'll want to "View by Theme". MMM Sanitation Team Alpha is the primary EXP maze used so we'll discuss that one first.

So what the hell are these mazes?

Sanitation Team Alpha is quite simple as you clear 3 sets of mobs and receive a majority of your reward at the end.

-All monsters link so take caution.
-Monsters levels are determined by the lowest level party member so level sync is recommended if your levels vary.
-The Hoardbox spawns where the last monster dies.
-A second box will spawn for the person who entered the maze if it has been more than a day since the last time they traded a tabula to enter MMM.

Know Thy Runes
The typical runes used on EXP mazes are:

Rune 001 - Aquans
-Crabs
-Pugils
*Sea Monks

Rune 003 - Birds
-Birds
-Giant Bats (note: Giant bats do not use CoP/WoTG movesets in MMM)
-Flock Bats (note: Flock bats do not use CoP/WoTG movesets in MMM)
-Colibri (note: Colibri do not reflect in MMM)
*Rocs
*Cockatrice
*Hippogryphs

Rune 005 - Lizards
-Lizards
-Efts
-Raptors
*Wivres
*Bugards
*Peistes

Rune 010 - Demons
-Imps
-Ahrimans
*Tauri (note: Tauri do not use Mortal Ray in MMM)

These are the monster families most frequently chosen for MMM though for a majority of runs you'll likely be picking Birds/Demons. Monster families with an asterisk signify "large" mobs that can also be the most troublesome to defeat.

Rune 017 - Supreme Might
-Raises monsters one check level. (Tough to Very Tough for example)

Rune 018 - Might
-Raises monsters one check level.
-Stacks with Supreme Might.

Rune 014 - Tiny Warrior
-Increases the likelihood of getting "small" monsters which spawn in greater quantities.
-Does not eliminate "large" monsters from spawning.

Rune 102 - Trial By Numbers
-Turns a standard MMM Sanitation Alpha maze from 2 sets of monsters to 3. A must-have for EXP mazes.

Rune 108 - Conditioning Contract
-Lowers EXP gained from monsters but in turn increases the final reward from the Hoardbox. Yet another EXP maze must-have.

Rune 109 - Sustenance Contract
-Causes the NPC Packapic to sell temp items for moblin marbles in the MMM lobby.
-Dusty Potion, Dusty Elixer, Dusty Ether, Dusty Reraise, Super Ether and Dusty Wings are among the items sold.
-Items cost between 2 and 8 marbles.

Pre-75 EXP
Pre-75 you'll want to be looking for these numbers:

Aquan/Bird - 01, 03
Supreme Might or Might - 017, 018
Conditioning Contract - 108
Trial by Numbers - 102
Tiny Warrior - 014
*Sustenance Contract - 109

Pre-75 it is suggested that you avoid mazes with Might and Supreme Might equipped as you run the risk of timing out.

*Sustenance Contract is by no needs required but it doesn't hurt to have.

75 and beyond EXP

Bird/Demon/Lizard/Aquan - 01, 03, 05, 10
Might - 17
Supreme Might - 18
Conditioning - 108
Trial by Numbers - 102
Tiny Warrior - 14
Sustinence Contract - 109

With access to 75, stacking Might and Supreme Might should not be a big deal for most parties. As with pre-75 EXP, Sustenance Contract is handy but not exactly required.

Completing the Maze

Well now you have your Maze Tabula ready to go, you simply take the item recieved from Duplidoc and trade it to the Maze Mongers Shopfront located in the chocobo stables. The entrance fee is usually around 200gil and you will be informed of any C.C points you may have.

Note: You must have party leader to trade your tabula.
Note: Your party members will be taken into the MMM lobby from anywhere in Lower Jeuno.
Note: Make sure none of your party members are in their Mog House because they will not be taken in with the rest of the group even if it shows them in Lower Jeuno.

What the hell are the "hands of darkness" and why are they preventing me from entering?

A common problem entering MMM is the infamous "hands of darkness" message after trading your tabula. What this means is usually that either:

A. Someone is currently in the MMM lobby and hasn't entered their maze yet.
B. Two groups have requested entry to the MMM lobby and you are the unlucky loser.
C. The server just doesn't like you.

In either case, repeat trading and you'll eventually get in. Another issue is trading the maze and not getting a confirmation to enter. This usually occurs when multiple people are attempting to trade the shopfront.

Once taken in you'll be in the MMM lobby:
-Packapic changes music, sells temp items and confirms the runes of the maze traded.
-If you are going to level sync, do it here. Once in the maze, monsters levels will be determined by the lowest level party member.
-Rediroq will transport you into the maze when ready.

Once in the maze, you have 3 sets of monsters to clear through. After you clear a set of monsters a forcer (a box) will spawn with a temp item inside if you defeat it.

Taking the item does not nerf EXP or affect EXP any ANY way.

Using EXP bands, chaining monsters and Corsair's roll will increase the EXP received at the end of a run. It is highly recommended to aim for chaining everything if possible.

Monsters will spawn in the same place every run so do not expect monsters to pop anywhere you haven't seen them before.

Sanitation Team Beta is a variant of Sanitation Team Alpha and takes place in Ruhotz Silvermines instead of Ghoyu's Reverie. In situations where Alpha is full, this is a viable alternative. In addition this maze is popular with manaburn parties.

What are the differences?

Instead of you going to the monsters in Alpha, Beta has the monsters come to you... in a sense. Upon entering the maze, you'll begin in the center of where monsters will eventually walk to and idle. The monsters will come from the various hallways that circle your spawn point.

It is suggested to immediately pick a corner and make that area your camp. Once the monsters begin approaching the center you are free to pull and defeat them. Once a wave is defeated, a light will appear in the center of the spawn point and the next wave will approach the center.

-This maze is much easier to chain as monsters congregate in one area.
-The odds of linking monsters higher than Alpha so you are going to want some form of crowd control.
-This maze defaults to 3 waves without Trial by Numbers and 4 with it.
-It may be wise to not stack Might/Supreme Might if you plan to do a 4 wave run. This depends purely on the strength of your party setup however.

After the waves have been defeated, the Hoardbox will spawn with EXP.

Credits

Thanks to everyone who has done research and has posted about MMM in order to make this possible.

P.S: Nobody Cares about Moblin Maze Mongers. 8)

[urat]

Would you guys say using the physical/magical immunity items that 4-5 summoners could two hour and take down any of the T1 or T2 mobs by the time the immunity potions wore?

IF so, if everyone in the group had at least CC marbles you could obtain the immunity drinks + revitalizer, pop NM, drink immunities and 2 hour with whatever summon its weak too, perform first wave of 2 hours then drink the revitalizer + a hi ether or whatever, restoring astral flow and your blood pact and follow up with another blood pact.

Then use ethers and use blood pacts as fast as possible and hopefully kill the boss before astral flow wears.

If this does kill the boss, you also have all your two hours recharged from the revitalizer and can swap to another leader and repeat.

However this is amusing 4-5 summoners have enough fire power to take down these bosses, so thats why I ask, do they?

[Francisco]

T2 Golem: PLD, MNK, RDM, BRD, WHM, COR

- Has inate "enspell" that does 250-300 damage (to an 80 MNK).

- Can two hour multiple times. Seems to initially use Manafont and cast Tornado.

- Eventually it will try to get clever, and wipe your shadows - fast cast silence, then use Chainspell + Tornado spam... a single Tornado can do 1700+

Spoiler: show

- The NM seems to have a weakness, or a glitch. After using Chainspell, and failing to kill anyone, it stopped casting, stopped using TP, and seemed to attack slower and for less accuracy. On our second attempt; it didn't even cast a single spell, use a two hour or TP move. It went down easily. I had to resort to Utsusemi: Ichi once the entire ~15 minute fight.

- In two runs, we did not get any notable equipment. The best synthesis items that dropped were a Yoichi's Sash and a D. Ingot.

- Excalibur's added effect seemed to do especially high damage.

- Runes were in place to grant HP Boost, Attack Speed Up, Magic Defense Bonus and Killer Effects.

- Chainspell is managable with Utsusemi since the NM seems to cast Tornado exclusively. Mages need to be swift with curing Silena, as it seems to favor Silence immediately before chainspell. Mages should not be shy about over-curing and pre-curing on Chainspell, as it could quickly kill a melee/tank.

Spoiler: show

- Possible that it switches between elements. The NM's added effect was wind based on our first attempt, and Water based on our second attempt. Had it not "glitched" (?) it may have cast Flood instead of Tornado and maybe Poison instead of Silence...

- Seemed resistant or immune to gravity. This may or may not be a result of elemental affiliation. We did not attempt Gravity on the Enwater version, but tried it on the Enaero version after Chainspell - in case it used Chainspell again and killed tanks and we needed to kite.

[Cymmina]

Alpha vs. Beta

Beta with rune 102 always has 32 mobs, guaranteed. Without 102, it always has 18 mobs. Trial by Numbers increases the size of each wave from 6 to 8, in addition to adding a 4th wave. Agro range is significantly higher here compared to what most people are used to (sound agro is 30').

The number of mobs in an Alpha maze is entirely dependent on the family of mobs you get. Bats are 10, Colibri are 8, Rocs are 6 (wiki info). A good maze could get you 30 mobs, while a bad maze might only have ~20 mobs inside and that's with rune 102 in use.

A Beta maze will always be able to give more exp than an Alpha maze due to numbers, but you may find yourself overwhelmed if your sleeper cannot reliably keep the other mobs in the wave slept.

For low level maze runs, Sustenance Contract helps mages out a lot, it's sad how few Duplidoc mazes I've seen have it on there. Super ethers are only 2 marbles and restore a good amount of MP.

Manaburning Mazes

Because a lot of people keep asking about it, here's a link to how our LS manaburns an Aquan Beta maze:

http://mdh.gamependium.com/strategies/mmm/manaburn.php

Includes information on the relative HPs of everything, the sort of gear you should have, terrain problems, notes on double waves, etc. Our group has average gear by BG standards, above average gear by random nobody's standards, and we handle M+SM mazes no problem.

[Francisco]

T3 Gnole - 2 attempts...

#1: PLD, MNK, COR, BRD, WHM, RDM
#2: PLD, MNK, RNG, BRD, WHM, RDM

Both times we failed to get it to 50%...

Gnole has extremely high evasion and defense. Resisted enfeebles, resisted nukes, and flat out took shit damage.

The RNG got shots up to 100 with STR Etude and Minuet.

Tornado Kick w/ Dune Boots and Footwork didn't break 450.

The worst part is, around 75% he goes in and out of this mode where he begins attacking EXTREMELY fast... not quite Hundred Fists, but maybe MNK with SV double Marches. To top it off, he has an extremely high counter rate.

So basically he takes shit damage, and eats MNKs for breakfast.

The rate of damage is probably sufficient for victory if you can keep it up - but Skoll's attack speed and constant Counters make it nearly impossible to melee.

I think this might need to be manaburned.

[Francisco]

I also want to add - we attempted the Flan again today... it was much harder this time than last.

Our first attempt we had runes for Max HP up, Mag.Def Bonus and attack speed... Same group, PLD, MNK, COR, RDM, WHM, BRD... it was a cake walk. The PLD disconnected at one point, and I (the MNK) tanked the flan through multiple chainspells with Haste, 2x March and MDB COR roll... never came close to dying. Spells ranged from 300 (T3, -ga III... up to ~900 damage (AM).

Tonight we tried it again with different runes - this one had Max HP up, Max MP up and INT up...

It was MUCH harder. A chainspell Tornado hit me for about 2900... -ga III was doing 1200-1600... -ga II was doing 600-800... (to me, at least) Nothing changed except the runes.

I think a good conclusion to draw from this is: SE expects us to have mazes designed specifically for each NM...

We're gonna take the INT/Max MP map to T3 and try to manaburn the Gnole - but I also think it might be manageable if there are runes which allow for VERY generous Acc/Evasion bonuses to nullify Skoll's absurd counter... (you can "miss" a counter, which just cancels the whole thing and you get hit).

[Eldelphia]

Now I know how Beta differs... I did wonder!

[Marcicus]

What's the best way to go about getting Rune 108 (Conditioning Contract)?

[Mercilessturtle]

Do any maze with lost & found on it over and over till one drops. Might as well do voucher 06 to farm marbles at the same time. Here's a guide on doing marble farming mazes.

[grevenilvec75]

Are there any combination of runes that are solo/duo friendly? I'm specifically thinking of BLM and/or SCH here. The few that we've tried we couldn't kill fast enough to clear.

how about RNG + DNC duo?

[Cymmina]

Are there any combination of runes that are solo/duo friendly? I'm specifically thinking of BLM and/or SCH here. The few that we've tried we couldn't kill fast enough to clear.

how about RNG + DNC duo?

Why would you want to? To getting good exp from the maze, you want to clear quickly and make the most of any exp bonuses you can (chains, corsair's roll, exp rings, increased mob count, etc.). You'd have to take off rune 102 (increases mob count) and use Weakness/Peon to turn the mobs' level down to DC. At that point, you may as well be doing FoVs or Campaign.

[grevenilvec75]

Why would you want to? To getting good exp from the maze, you want to clear quickly and make the most of any exp bonuses you can (chains, corsair's roll, exp rings, increased mob count, etc.). You'd have to take off rune 102 (increases mob count) and use Weakness/Peon to turn the mobs' level down to DC. At that point, you may as well be doing FoVs or Campaign.

Yeah that's pretty much what I figured. I was hoping for something like Flans since my old 75 solo camp is all decent challenge now ;_;

[Zag]

Killed gumdrop, hes easy. I suggest doing him if you are trying to advance in tier.

We Used DRK80, (Amano lvl 80) SAM80, BRD80, BLM77, WHM80, and a Shenlongs MNK full usukane BB etc.
DRK had k-club for last 20%. Ok so maybe we had some nice geared people lol but you can spam 2 hours with revitializer and use fantics and fools drink if you use 3 C.C points. He is easy to fight slowly and kill him slowly. Although mnk is blunt damage its still ok damage vs this pudding compared to diremite even. SAM was the tank and MNK they traded hate they were both galka and had nice HP with HP rune.

NM uses chainspell once and meikyo once. Chainspell does nasty damage but our whm always uses benediction and curaga IV during chainspell and we threw random stuns with blm and drk during chainspell. Everytime Elemental seal was up, I used it for paralyze and kept elegy and slow on at all times and threw stuns whenever they were up.

I (blm77) used a spy's drink(strong haste drink) with marbles so I can stun recast faster. BRD can SV for 6 mins at the start and 6 mins after it wears off with revitializer. Trade MMM member card after you are done so it can record if you are the Party leader. Dispel his Magic attack boost and erase magic def down on party members unless you want to see them get nuked for 3000 damage. All melee sub /ninja.

Diremite NM destroyed us in less then 2 mins each time we fought him. Gumdrop is the way to go imo.

[benny]

My group usually does diremite for tier 1s. We take a PLD/NIN and 2 DD/NIN along with RDM and 2 more backline jobs. He uses 100fist after a set amount of time or every 25% so we just gravity and kite while that's up. His attacks don't seem to get too murderous until <25% and then we just usually kite and burn down with magic. Make sure you take in HP/MP boost runes and cast Poisona quickly on melees as it is huge damage (over 100/tick I believe).

Tier 2 the golem is usually easiest for us, with a setup like PLD WAR BLM SCH RDM BRD, using SC/MB for the element he's weak to at the moment (he sometimes will change during the fight with a 2hr dust animation so be careful). If he uses Crystal Shield melees need to turn for 30 seconds or so because he absorbs melee damage for a while after it.

Tier3 my group has been struggling with, mostly because of the 15minute timer. We've gotten close on the dragon (Silence will seal his Lodesong and Voidsong btw) but it seems like to seal the deal on tier 3s you really need to set up a strong maze to buff everyone and also use plenty of temp items in order to deal enough damage.

[bador]

T3 skoll we beated it after 3rd attempt we planned to fight it on new moon.


our set up were MNK SAM BLM BRD WHM RDM we keeping skillchain darkness and mb ice.

when he use call of the moon he stand on his 2 feet and able to counter plus he got ability like flaming him up forget it's name but start with Cxxxxx he gain more counters and speed up and when he return back to his 4 feet he will do his heal TP move shortly maybe try to stun (it only healed 3600hp on new moon , 16k in near full moon -_-) and it's kinda fixed he only did 2~3 in whole fight.

got h2h claws and we tried to see t4 but goblin didnt give us option to fight seems need beat all 3 of t3 or all.

good luck.

P.S sorry cant post picture of drop need past 10 posts lol