MMM findings

[Thorny]

So what you're suggesting is that having your BLM occasionally standing up to stun elemental -agas is less effective than having your BLM stand up constantly in the event that the mobs decides to Bindga/Smash your tank?

I'm suggesting that if your tank sucks hard enough that they can't ichi when they see bindga start casting, your BLM stand up when they see bindga then cast stun when the TP move readies. I have killed it at least 20 times and have yet to die to a tp move(I -DO NOT- have my BLM do this, I simply cast ichi or ni if I see bindga). I've had no problems duoing it with enfeebling magic, after one attempt with elemental I was firmly convinced it was undoable with my current gear/merits because of the amount of mp lost standing up to stun -gas every 3rd cast.. I timed out with it at 20% which is a rather large margin to add without using 2hs.

[Darte]

I am a firm believer that THF does not effect anything that may/may not come out of treasure boxes, but not so sure since MMM seems to operate on a different manner.

My static usually does level 1 runs everyday and we get our dry spells and some good spells.

But today one of my static peeps went THF and we went 3/3 on our 3 runs for runes.

Coincidence?

[EvilSid]

Thanks for replies. I've found a guy with a nice marble farming setup.. I've got 46 marbles in his maze (i guess it's the maximum), so I managed to buy the Voucher 07..

I entered with a lv.1 job. I hope to find more ppl with that rune setup. Btw now I've understood how MMM works.

When I have all the runes I need, I'll be back to ask strategies for Nimble Nelson lol

[Ryphen]

I am a firm believer that THF does not effect anything that may/may not come out of treasure boxes, but not so sure since MMM seems to operate on a different manner.

My static usually does level 1 runs everyday and we get our dry spells and some good spells.

But today one of my static peeps went THF and we went 3/3 on our 3 runs for runes.

Coincidence?

Yes, it's coincidence. I do four runs a day, all on THF because I like running through with Strider's, and most of the time I get maybe one rune from all the runs. There are also plenty of days I go 0/4.

[Myriads]

Never seen THF help with hoardbox drop rates. They do make the mobs you kill drop more junk though.

As I said above, I think Rune drop rates are random with a slight modifier based on moon phase.

[Corrderio]

You wouldn't have a chance anyway, it runs at ~150% movement speed.

I thought that was only the Dhalmel >.>

[Darte]

Bleh thought so, must have been just a lucky streak then :/

[Yugl]

I'm suggesting that if your tank sucks hard enough that they can't ichi when they see bindga start casting, your BLM stand up when they see bindga then cast stun when the TP move readies. I have killed it at least 20 times and have yet to die to a tp move(I -DO NOT- have my BLM do this, I simply cast ichi or ni if I see bindga). I've had no problems duoing it with enfeebling magic, after one attempt with elemental I was firmly convinced it was undoable with my current gear/merits because of the amount of mp lost standing up to stun -gas every 3rd cast.. I timed out with it at 20% which is a rather large margin to add without using 2hs.

You're going to have to throw some proof at this point. Unless you're not using Supreme Might + Might, I don't see people duoing safely without solid gear and possibly windower.

[Wolfknight]

You're going to have to throw some proof at this point. Unless you're not using Supreme Might + Might, I don't see people duoing safely without solid gear and possibly windower.

yes but without either it's pretty doable to duo[did rdm/whm + sam/nin few times] but drop rate goes to shit in my experience.

[Thorny]

You're going to have to throw some proof at this point. Unless you're not using Supreme Might + Might, I don't see people duoing safely without solid gear and possibly windower.

I do it with Might + Supreme Might, but I do have solid gear and windower. I outlined the strategy earlier, but since you're pretty bad at reading apparently:

RDM/NIN + BLM/NIN
Lizard
Great Warrior - Resonated
Might
Supreme Might
Enfeebling Magic
Force of Will
Lost & Found

Bio II and Poison II at all times, RDM uses mp on haste/stoneskin/refresh/hate tools only. BLM nukes as much as they can when RDM has hate, and tanks for short periods of time when they pull it. You need to get roughly 13-15 tier 4 nukes off along with DoT, so RDM needs to have a decent enmity setup and BLM needs to be able to rest frequently uninterrupted. I'll take a screenshot next time I do it, but the strategy isn't that complicated and it's not that difficult a fight if you go with decent players.. with enfeebling fight time is usually upwards of 25 minutes, adding elemental wastes more time for no reason. I believe it to be doable with stillness as well, but have not personally tried(though I've trioed with stillness and a SMN for 3rd).

Edit: linked due to mass amount of screenshots

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/619/2...6lowerjeun.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6986/...7ghoyusrev.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8388/...4ghoyusrev.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/672...4ghoyusrev.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/380...5lowerjeun.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8247/...8lowerjeun.jpg

Note that this was dualboxed, not two players. I had less than 100 MP on my BLM and literally 55 seconds left when I lotted my rune, had I used elemental magic and interrupted resting even twice I would have timed out. This is the slowest finish I've done, but the point stands.

[Yugl]

I outlined the strategy earlier, but since you're pretty bad at reading apparently

Actually, since you're the bad reader, you completely missed the entire point of the post in which I said you can't do it without solid gear and windower. I can't believe you, who claims to be the master of reading, missed the significance of that entire clause.

I didn't ask for your strategy, I asked for some sort of proof and stated that it would be impossible to do without the two things mentioned. Is it clear what I said, or so I need to spell it out further?

Edit: Before you take this and make another retarded "Omg your tanks are shit" post, I suggest you figure out the meaning of the word *easier*, since if one requires more skill/gear to win than the other, it's clearly not the easier set up. Hence, Elemental Magic is *easier* than Enfeebling magic. I can't believe you don't get this concept.

[Thorny]

Actually, since you're the bad reader, you completely missed the entire point of the post in which I said you can't do it without solid gear and windower. I can't believe you, who claims to be the master of reading, missed the significance of that entire clause.

I didn't ask for your strategy, I asked for some sort of proof and stated that it would be impossible to do without the two things mentioned. Is it clear what I said, or so I need to spell it out further?

Edit: Before you take this and make another retarded "Omg your tanks are shit" post, I suggest you figure out the meaning of the word *easier*, since if one requires more skill/gear to win than the other, it's clearly not the easier set up. Hence, Elemental Magic is *easier* than Enfeebling magic. I can't believe you don't get this concept.

The hardest thing about MMM is finding people willing to spam it, cutting people out makes it easier, fin. Dsfargeg is a 3 month old character with mostly AH gear and I don't even have tier2 merits yet, I have a hard time believing any decent BLM + RDM duo would have too much difficulty with it using either enfeebling, divine, or dark magic.. but it's not doable with elemental. Elemental has a much higher risk of one shotting people if it gets off, so in your less-than-perfect setup with mediocre players, missing a stun is just as likely if not more likely to get you killed than anything enfeebling can cause. Finding 1 other decent player with a common job is much easier than finding 5 idiots that can listen if you have friends.

My gear is 'solid', but it's nothing elite. I have no refresh body or duelist's chapeau, no darksteel+1, no goliard hands/legs/feet, no morrigan's period, no nashira, no wlegs, the ONLY special piece of gear I have on this character is Altruistic Cape, and I somehow doubt that's enabling me to beat Tanihwa when I otherwise couldn't. As far as windower, that's just silly.. it adds convenience but it's not hard to set up 2-macro things for different spells so claiming not having it makes anything impossible is ridiculous.

[Yugl]

The hardest thing about MMM is finding people willing to spam it, cutting people out makes it easier, fin. Dsfargeg is a 3 month old character with mostly AH gear and I don't even have tier2 merits yet, I have a hard time believing any decent BLM + RDM duo would have too much difficulty with it using either enfeebling, divine, or dark magic.. but it's not doable with elemental. Elemental has a much higher risk of one shotting people if it gets off, so in your less-than-perfect setup with mediocre players, missing a stun is just as likely if not more likely to get you killed than anything enfeebling can cause. Finding 1 other decent player with a common job is much easier than finding 5 idiots that can listen if you have friends.

My gear is 'solid', but it's nothing elite. I have no refresh body or duelist's chapeau, no darksteel+1, no goliard hands/legs/feet, no morrigan's period, no nashira, no wlegs, the ONLY special piece of gear I have on this character is Altruistic Cape, and I somehow doubt that's enabling me to beat Tanihwa when I otherwise couldn't. As far as windower, that's just silly.. it adds convenience but it's not hard to set up 2-macro things for different spells so claiming not having it makes anything impossible is ridiculous.

Cutting the amount of people needed does make it easier, but you negate that point when you talk about RDM tanking. I know for certain that shouting for a RDM with tanking capabilities is *much* more difficult than finding a BLM and a PLD. Furthermore, how is stunning an -Aga elemental magic difficult? It has one of the greatest cast times in the game and if I had to choose between a pick up BLM stunning an elemental aga versus them stunning after Bindga or some other Enfeeblega, I would be more comfortable with the former.

Either way, if you're willing to provide a video with the gear that you're using as you beat Tanihwa, that would help your argument much more, because so far, the suggestions that you're offering make the fight more difficult. I think that point is clear by the fact that you're nit picking at the tanks I use for my runs.

[Valisk]

Who the fuck cares, just do what works for you. No room for penis swinging contests. Both of you are shitting up the thread.

[Thorny]

You need a stun OR a tank capable of stepping back or casting utsu, not both. I can't fraps that well when using 2 characters, I'd be glad to upload my spellcast so everyone can see exactly what I use on both characters for every action though. I'm offering strategies, posting information, etc.. you're whining that elemental magic is the only proper option. Also, shouting for a RDM tank? Who the fuck still shouts for anything, much less a duoable mob..

[Yugl]

I'm offering strategies, posting information, etc.. you're whining that elemental magic is the only proper option.

Again, you're proving that you cannot read properly. I never said Elemental Magic was the only proper option. If you can point out where I said Elemental was the *only proper option*, then you make a point. However, I am saying that in general, since most of the parties going after these NMs aren't always skilled, using windower (Mentioned because in some cases it allows for an entirely different play style), and most likely won't have adequate tanking gear for RDM. Is my post an attack at you? No. It's an attack at one piece of information you provided, which is false. Somehow you took this to be a personal attack and started attacking me and before that, the tanks. The former suggests you're acting childish, and the latter just proves my point further by suggesting your way probably isn't the easiest method.

Edit: Valisk, it wasn't a personal argument until Thorny started throwing insults. It was a debate over which rune is easier, and that helps people by allowing them to decide between which rune they're better suited for. Of course we could just say it varies by group, but the statement that I originally responded to said "in general" Enfeebling magic rune is better. That is what I disagree with.

[TybudX]

Yugl, I'd like to point out that you have done more to prove without a doubt that Elemental is not the way to go with that set up than Thorny has. Good job.

[Valisk]

My group uses Divine Magic for Taniwah and it's a cake walk. Flash, Banish IV, Banishga III, and Repose are the only things it uses. I usually save Shield Bash for Banishga III. If timer is down, just start casting Ichi slightly after Tani starts casting or Ni as soon as it lands.

My point: Divine is easier than Enfeebling and Elemental so you both lose

[Thorny]

My group uses Divine Magic for Taniwah and it's a cake walk. Flash, Banish IV, Banishga III, and Repose are the only things it uses. I usually save Shield Bash for Banishga III. If timer is down, just start casting Ichi slightly after Tani starts casting or Ni as soon as it lands.

My point: Divine is easier than Enfeebling and Elemental so you both lose

I don't think anyone is arguing Divine isn't the easiest, I've never seen a divine rune and the guy who had enfeebling/ele didn't have it though :X

[Yugl]

Yugl, I'd like to point out that you have done more to prove without a doubt that Elemental is not the way to go with that set up than Thorny has. Good job.

In what way have I done that?

Edit: No experience with Divine Magic, so I can't really say which of those is easier.