Temporary Suspension of Moblin Maze Mongers (Dec. 17)

[ghanima]

stop apologizing for SE, they can stand up for themselves. and this isn't some obscure fuckup, this is the result of choosing a certain dialogue option from a common NPC.

Either

1. someone didn't do their job in QA
2. devs changed something before it went live, and QA never saw it
3. something fucked up/didn't get posted right when it went live

My money is on 2 or 3, anyone who knows what QA is like knows that if you don't do your job you're on the chopping block faster than you can snap your fingers. I find 1 to be unlikely because that would be a no-brainer test case in any test matrix.

And by the way LOL at "beta testing." Open betas are shit, maybe you get some PR, some feedback, and some large scale handling of your game. Beta testing is nothing like real QA, and real QA is not beta testing. Kohan is right, he's not apologizing for SE as much as he's saying it's not the simplistic answer the majority of people in this thread think it is. Nine times out of ten any bug you see was already seen by the QA team and deemed by the higher ups to be not worth fixing, too obscure, or too risky to fix. Bug of this magnitude smacks of something being rushed out before it's ready or a last minute change/faulty update to live servers.

The shit real QA testers do to games is nothing you'd ever want to do. It's boring, repetitive, thankless, and they pay and treat you like shit. No matter how much testing goes into any game the reality is that more time is spent playing it by normal end users in the first 24 hours of release than the ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT cycle. There's no way around it.

Of course they could be using an outsourced QA team instead of an in-house team, in that case rofl @ SE because 75% of outsourced QA groups are utter shit.

[Asukas]

That's not the developer's fault, because it is not the developer's job to test the product. It never is, unless they're some start-up working out of a garage.

I'm not sure where you have been getting your developer info, but saying it's not the developers job to test the product is non-sense. Even with new development practices that push more testing on the developers, it has always been the responsibility of the developer to at least in some way unit test their code.

I will admit that full product testing at a regression level or integration level catches things developers will not (hence the word, integration), but it doesn't excuse major bugs. I can't recall the last time my boss said, "It's okay that your application just screwed over 5000 people because bugs happen, and they should just be happy we offer our services." Stop making excuses for them. We pay for it, and therefore have the right to complain.

Many companies have adopted things like Agile/Iterative Development and TDD to ensure they are responsive to the customers needs because those needs are always changing (just like needs change in this game everyday). SE has been responsive to those needs for the most part, but they fail in delivery.

Test-driven development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Test-Driven Development by Example - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Indalecia]

Least I got my pirate first! Aaaaargh!!

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...cia/arrrgh.png

[Corrderio]

Least I got my pirate first! Aaaaargh!!

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...cia/arrrgh.png

OMFG I hate you!

[BRP]

Complaining about bugs in FFXI? Really?

[Kohan]

I'm not sure where you have been getting your developer info, but saying it's not the developers job to test the product is non-sense.

I work in the industry, and have for years. No, the developers for major companies do not do any sort of extensive testing on their code. This isn't the same as other kinds of software, this is how it works in the game development world. Ghanima has the right idea.

[Silenka]

It's not outsourced.

[Kang]

They blocking off lowerjeuno in 20 min to fix it.

[Kimiko]

Back up now, but going into Dynamis. Will have new info later.

[Lordender]

Lmao I can't believe people are actually surprised. This is the same company that added HUGE adjustments to 2h weapon formula's which weren't even tested before they put it into the fucking game.

I mean really, why act surprised? the "few" programmers that are left working on this game probably don't give much of a fuck and half ass design the shit in the first place because they're not working on the awesome new projects.

[Purrrfect]

So like...

Its a known issue by GM's....

For the MMM to gobble all your damn cash....

Called up a GM, asked them how the fuck I lost 600k.
"Its a MMM issue"
"You will be reimbused"
Right away? Naaa, there getting back to me...

SE never has heard of beta bloody testers.

Was this the goblin you are talking about? :

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3031/atnmax8.jpg

[Kang]

Was this the goblin you are talking about? :

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3031/atnmax8.jpg

"Me like shiniez and clink clinks. Yoo have any clink clinks?" Oh wait, that sounds like a qiqirn lol.

[Ohaigaiz]

Was this the goblin you are talking about? :

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3031/atnmax8.jpg

genius

[Drex]

it's the second coming of ATNM Test!

[Spekkio]

honestly it would not be that difficult to create a "beta" client due to the construction of ffxi. since ffxi exists as a sum of very small parts (the dat files) it would be simple enough to convert an install to a "beta install" by simply swapping the dats for the beta dats. this could be done easily enough with nothing more than a shell script to rename the files. from there, players could log in to a test server and play with it without losing the ability to play their normal chars. moreover, with players gnashing and clawing for any scrap of information, a chance to preview the update would probably see a large number of players popping in to see it and thus finding flaws by using it under "normal" circumstances. even more, if a lotto were offered, it wouldn't just be a diversion, but a privilege and prize to try it out, ensuring that it gets worked hard for the time it's being tested. sure, bugs and mistakes are inevitable, but even microsoft sends out release candidates for people to try out and report bugs on.

[Varrin]

it's the second coming of ATM Test!

... clearly it was a typo all along.

[ringthree]

Lmao I can't believe people are actually surprised. This is the same company that added HUGE adjustments to 2h weapon formula's which weren't even tested before they put it into the fucking game.

I mean really, why act surprised? the "few" programmers that are left working on this game probably don't give much of a fuck and half ass design the shit in the first place because they're not working on the awesome new projects.

The problem with the 2h update wasn't with 2h originally it was with 1h when they changed pDIF, and accidentally limited the pDIF (or cRatio or something like that) at high levels. That was likely due to a mathematics problem than negligence. They then later changed the 2h damage because it was determined to be too much, which was later, separate and only made after observation of the player bases reaction to the update. I think you are confusing the two different issues.

honestly it would not be that difficult to create a "beta" client due to the construction of ffxi. since ffxi exists as a sum of very small parts (the dat files) it would be simple enough to convert an install to a "beta install" by simply swapping the dats for the beta dats. this could be done easily enough with nothing more than a shell script to rename the files. from there, players could log in to a test server and play with it without losing the ability to play their normal chars. moreover, with players gnashing and clawing for any scrap of information, a chance to preview the update would probably see a large number of players popping in to see it and thus finding flaws by using it under "normal" circumstances. even more, if a lotto were offered, it wouldn't just be a diversion, but a privilege and prize to try it out, ensuring that it gets worked hard for the time it's being tested. sure, bugs and mistakes are inevitable, but even microsoft sends out release candidates for people to try out and report bugs on.

I think you are trying to compare Beta testing to WoW's Beta testing, which really isn't. WoW's beta testing is just basically taste testing for players. The players do report bugs or problems that occur, but it is basically just to gauge player reaction to the next patch, changes that are being made and give them a little taste of things to come. Like several people have said before, this isn't QA testing at all, and has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, etc.

[Max™]

Actually, they fucked up 2her pDif caps on Crits too, on top of zomgjesus breaking things with the briefly awesome 1:1 Str/Dex ratios.

Maxaru hits the Greater Colibri for 336 points of damage.
Maxaru scores a critical hit! The Greater Colibri takes 336 points of damage!

[ringthree]

Actually, they fucked up 2her pDif caps on Crits too, on top of zomgjesus breaking things with the briefly awesome 1:1 Str/Dex ratios.

Maxaru hits the Greater Colibri for 336 points of damage.
Maxaru scores a critical hit! The Greater Colibri takes 336 points of damage!

They did have pDIF problems with 2h but it is not clear what was intended and then adjusted and what was not intended and then fixed. The fix came first, then the adjustment a few days later. I remember this specifically because that was when Aurik was crying about his MNK being destroyed for like three days even though everyone knew SE was going to fix it (and they even announced it).

[LeothaSamurai]

O but what glorious days they were.
I remember!