Formal Magic Accuracy Testing

[Callisto]

I'm not so sure, I remember when I was trying to figure out the dMND -> potency part of Paralyze II vs. Steelshells, I was getting very consistent duration. I think it was 2 minutes, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Here's my post from before

Kind of a side note if anyone is interested, when I was doing the rounds on crabs last night I noticed that Para II very consistently lasted 19-21 attack rounds(this was on about 10 straight level 73-74 crabs). If the crabs have 360 Delay(I think Kirschy mentioned they do) then 20 swing rounds is 120 seconds, I think it'd be safe to say normal fully unresisted Para II duration is around 120 seconds.

It was a total of probably 25~ casts, I think I didn't get this duration twice out of all of them.

[Ambir]

My impression was that Paralyze duration is just random, unlike Slow and Sleep. I've also never seen a 1/4 resist on Elegy.

Yep, I'm not sure how you tell the difference between a low duration paralyze due to it's random duration, and a resist. I suspect it's not just random, and that a resist would give you a 50% maximum duration for the cast, but I don't think you'd actually be able to tell it apart from a Para that simply wore off fast.

Enfeebles certainly don't show the same resist patterns as nukes though. I don't get the wide range of durations for Slow II (even on mobs that resist Slow) that would match the range of nuke values I get nuking things...

[Kaeko]

Another Post translating the JP blogger for anyone interested.

This one talks more about stats like INT, MACC, and staves again. It also goes into the blogger's interpretation of the data and offers some insight as to what happens if the assumption of piecewise linearity is not correct.

He didn't provide a summary of his conclusions for the post yet, but basically he thinks

(The precise % increases are not definitive, but estimations with logical %s)

- Below 50% hit rate, +1 MACC = 0.5% hit rate
- Above 50% hit rate, +1 MACC = 1.0% hit rate

- Above 50% hit rate, +1 INT = 1.0% hit rate if dINT is below +10
- Above 50% hit rate, +1 INT = 0.5% hit rate if dINT is above +10

This suggests dINT does affect accuracy, but not in a completely linear fashion. Basically, stacking stats is good for accuracy when you're below +10 difference. After that, your return is not as great.

***********

An interesting observation to me was that in general, stacking INT gets less effective as you increase it eventually (from +1% to +0.5%), while MACC and Skill get more effective as you increase it eventually (from +0.5% to +1%).

I'll definitely repost Robonosto's summary when he completes it to see what insights he has.

[Vail]

I don't get the wide range of durations for Slow II (even on mobs that resist Slow)

never ever seen slow II's duration vary from 3:00, 1:30, :45, :22

[Ambir]

never ever seen slow II's duration vary from 3:00, 1:30, :45, :22

What I was meaning was that on mobs that resist some (say Dynamis-Xarca NMs where I have about 75% accuracy) I'll only very rarely get a 1:30. If the resist pattern followed the nuke patterns, I should be getting a lot of 1:30s, and 0:45s when my base unresisted accuracy was 75%.

Slow is fixed duration though, and yes, you'll only get even divisions of 3 min (or 2:56) for duration. I didn't intend to imply otherwise.

[Valyana]

Have you seen 0:45 Slow II? I've only seen half-resists for Elegy.

[Ambir]

[URL="http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-magic-resist-rates.html"]

- Above 50% hit rate, +1 INT = 1.0% hit rate if dINT is below +10
- Above 50% hit rate, +1 INT = 0.5% hit rate if dINT is above +10

This suggests dINT does affect accuracy, but not in a completely linear fashion. Basically, stacking stats is good for accuracy when you're below +10 difference. After that, your return is not as great.[/B]

***********

An interesting observation to me was that in general, stacking INT gets less effective as you increase it eventually (from +1% to +0.5%), while MACC and Skill get more effective as you increase it eventually (from +0.5% to +1%).

I'm a little confused now, as his original data definitely showed an increase in the amount of Accuracy (per unit INT) at high dINT compared to low dINT (whats the ascii for a triangle??).

This graph now shows diminishing returns for INT as dINT increases?

Have you seen 0:45 Slow II? I've only seen half-resists for Elegy.

Honestly, no (and I have HNM tanks that yell as soon as Slow wears, if I miss it). It took quite awhile after I got Slow II for me to actually catch it in a half resist though...

[Kaeko]

I'm a little confused now, as his original data definitely showed an increase in the amount of Accuracy (per unit INT) at high dINT compared to low dINT (whats the ascii for a triangle??).

This graph now shows diminishing returns for INT as dINT increases?

Which original data are you talking about showing increasing MACC as INT increases? Can you link me because I don't remember one like this.

[Ambir]

Which original data are you talking about showing increasing MACC as INT increases? Can you link me because I don't remember one like this.

Nevermind me, I misread the original skill test as an INT test >< Edited an earlier post where I posted about it...

Seems strange that at higher accuracy, the effect of base stat (INT) halves, while the effect of Skill doubles. Could explain why some of these tests indicate 1skill giving the same increase as 1 INT (at low levels of accuracy), while other tests (eg Pchan's) have indicated 1Skill = 4 base stat.

I have no idea how to set up gear now though!

[Vail]

Have you seen 0:45 Slow II? I've only seen half-resists for Elegy.

I've seen alot of the 1:30 durations ofcourse, even using ES on cerberus (in appx 60 fights) I've seen 1 of my own ES slow IIs last only 1:30 and heard of 3 times where a WHM in the ES slow order had their's halved.

The 45sec ones you tend to see more often with slow I while you're leveling up (before your stats/skill start to really settle in, pre-50)

I had a screenshot of a 45sec slow somewhere... ugh well over 2000 screenshots to shuffle through <.>;; It's just like short duration sleeps, you see them ALOT when you're low level using sleep I, but at 75 if it lands it'll almost always be the full duration.

never seen a :22 sec slow from memory accually, can probably scratch that off

[Vail]

thinking about it... several spells act weird at lower levels, bind is border line unreliable at lower levels yet because borderline broken @ 75, maybe it's possible many enfeeble spells are effected by how much skill you have in a similiar since as dark magic skill effects drain/aspir/bio ?

[Amok]

Another Post translating the JP blogger for anyone interested.

I'm a bit confused by "base" magic hit rate. The blogger defines it as:

the result of a calculation that compares your "magic accuracy" score before equipment and buffs (debuffs) to a mob's "magic evasion" score, which may be comprised of elemental resistance factors.

Does this mean that the "base" hit rate takes into account your natural naked INT and skill (since he only mentions gear and buffs)? What's the significance of finding out what that base is, if it's dependant on job and race? Pls clarify, because I'm very interested in this line of testing.

[Callisto]

5) What's the link between magic accuracy and INT/MND in when you calculate resist rates ?

To start, INT has no effect on damage reduction during a resist. About resist rates, all depends on the nature of the spell casted, caster's INT will be compared to the target's MND or INT, according to the spell, in order to ajust the resist rate. But some other stats can count too. Depending on the spell you cast, any stat of the target can be compared to the caster's INT or MND, for example the caster's INT with the target's AGI. It's a bit complicated (*laugh*).

Ahem. WAT

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...ml#post2419703

[pchan]

I've seen alot of the 1:30 durations ofcourse, even using ES on cerberus (in appx 60 fights) I've seen 1 of my own ES slow IIs last only 1:30 and heard of 3 times where a WHM in the ES slow order had their's halved.

The 45sec ones you tend to see more often with slow I while you're leveling up (before your stats/skill start to really settle in, pre-50)

I had a screenshot of a 45sec slow somewhere... ugh well over 2000 screenshots to shuffle through <.>;; It's just like short duration sleeps, you see them ALOT when you're low level using sleep I, but at 75 if it lands it'll almost always be the full duration.

never seen a :22 sec slow from memory accually, can probably scratch that off

I've done a few ES paralayze/slow on random flan just to check the duration ... and the duration was not full the first time I did it. I can't say for sure but I'll asume that Accuracy has no effect on paralyze/slow duration. Hell, on Odin, who resists a lot slow (10% ?), slow 2 always lasted 3 minutes which seems surprising to me if there are actualy partial resists.

[Tortalius]

Has anyone made any more progress working with this? I'd gladly join in, if someone wanted to let me know something in particular they'd like to have looked into.

[Yaggi]

Well, i've been 75rdm for about 2 years now and i've always been using HQ staves, but i'm looking at this Alkalurops and questioning whether it can compare to HQ staves. My argument is rather simple: M.acc +20, MND+10(M.acc +5) on a paralyze2 seems like it'd be better to me than just the +15% that you get from Aquilo's Staff. I don't see any conclusive results about this staff yet, but i dont have the resources to test it like the rest of you. If there is already another thread which has the info please direct me there, otherwise i'd like to see if anyone has done further testing on this to compare it to HQ staves on HNM and such. A big concern of mine is landing slow2 on cerberus and khimaira without ES, consistently. Would make it possible to slow2 cerb while i tank if possible. Thanks in advance!
--Yaggi

[pchan]

Well, i've been 75rdm for about 2 years now and i've always been using HQ staves, but i'm looking at this Alkalurops and questioning whether it can compare to HQ staves. My argument is rather simple: M.acc +20, MND+10(M.acc +5) on a paralyze2 seems like it'd be better to me than just the +15% that you get from Aquilo's Staff. I don't see any conclusive results about this staff yet, but i dont have the resources to test it like the rest of you. If there is already another thread which has the info please direct me there, otherwise i'd like to see if anyone has done further testing on this to compare it to HQ staves on HNM and such. A big concern of mine is landing slow2 on cerberus and khimaira without ES, consistently. Would make it possible to slow2 cerb while i tank if possible. Thanks in advance!
--Yaggi

All is in this thread pretty much, just have to put the info together. HQ staves were giving ~+30% landing rate when your base success is high enaugh. On the other hands 1 magic acc would give 1% and 1 stat 1% or 0.5% depending on your MND vs the mob, so alkalurops is 25 mac or 30 mac vs 30 mac to HQ staves.

[Thorny]

The accuracy difference between HQ staffs and alkalurops is negligible. Alkalurops has MND on it for potency, making it a better weapon for slow/paralyze if mythic(or mistil)/muse isn't viable on that mob.