18% tax on sugary drinks...

[Zalius]

I drink water during my raids. Or milk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df53LWQuezQ

[archibaldcrane]

The fiber found in the fruit (not the juice) offset the fructose

What exactly do you mean by that statement? Does the fiber somehow prevent the body from receiving 4 calories per gram of fructose? Offset? This is mealy-mouthed language.

How do you offset calories with another food?

[Lordender]

I think this is stupid, people have the right to drink what ever the hell they want rather its healthy/unhealthy. If people want to eat/drink unhealthy then let them, let them slowly kill themselves.

[archibaldcrane]

I think this is stupid, people have the right to drink what ever the hell they want rather its healthy/unhealthy. If people want to eat/drink unhealthy then let them, let them slowly kill themselves.

No one is infringing on that right. What are you talking about?

[kuronosan]

Hmmm.

8 ounces of Coke = 100 calories. 26g of sugar.

8 ounces of Orange Juice = 122 calories. 29.5g of sugar.

What classifies as a "sweet beverage" again?

Refined sugar != sugar. Orange Juice contains naturally occurring fructose while most Coke products and Sodas in general contain either High Fructose Corn Syrup (which even the same amount of sugar in weight will contain FAR more sugar than standard fructose) or artificial sweeteners.

To recap - even if something contains more calories or more sugar, it doesn't make it unhealthier. The ingredients are what make it unhealthier. That's like saying white bread is healthier than wheat just because it has less calories and less sugar. Read the ingredients.

[zoobernut]

Refined sugar != sugar. Orange Juice contains naturally occurring fructose while most Coke products and Sodas in general contain either High Fructose Corn Syrup (which even the same amount of sugar in weight will contain FAR more sugar than standard fructose) or artificial sweeteners.

To recap - even if something contains more calories or more sugar, it doesn't make it unhealthier. The ingredients are what make it unhealthier. That's like saying white bread is healthier than wheat just because it has less calories and less sugar. Read the ingredients.

This. And adding to it an active slightly heavier person that eats healthy foods will be healthier than the skinny active high metabolism person who eats processed crap.

[pohibaba]

Don't worry guys, this is just government doing their job: protecting us from ourselves. If we're all good boys and girls mommy government will also get us all a cool bike for Christmas too!

[archibaldcrane]

Refined sugar != sugar. Orange Juice contains naturally occurring fructose while most Coke products and Sodas in general contain either High Fructose Corn Syrup (which even the same amount of sugar in weight will contain FAR more sugar than standard fructose) or artificial sweeteners.

To recap - even if something contains more calories or more sugar, it doesn't make it unhealthier. The ingredients are what make it unhealthier. That's like saying white bread is healthier than wheat just because it has less calories and less sugar. Read the ingredients.

We're talking about Obesity here, not nutrition. They are separate discussions. If wheat bread has more calories than white bread, and all you care about is weight gain or loss, you are better off consuming the lower calorie option. In every situation. Always. Calories in vs. calories out is what controls weight. Everyone tries to make this way fucking more complicated than it is.

If you're talking about heart disease or preventing gout or immune system response, find another thread. This is about a tax designed to change consumer behavior to limit obesity. Obesity is caused by weight gain, which is caused by eating more calories than you burn over a long period of time.

Your babbling about "far more sugar" in HFCS doesn't show up in the category that fucking matters for weight gain or loss - CALORIES.

[Qalbert]

What exactly do you mean by that statement? Does the fiber somehow prevent the body from receiving 4 calories per gram of fructose? Offset? This is mealy-mouthed language.

How do you offset calories with another food?

fiber burns a certain amount of calories just by being processed etc, thus offsetting calories gained by the sugar. using hypothetical simplistic numbers if an apple has 5g of fiber at 10 calories per g to process, and the sugars in said apple contribute 20g at 4 calories of sugar you get -50 calories due to burning fiber, and + 50 from sugar, for a net gain of 0 calories. With juice you jsut get the +50 calories.

[archibaldcrane]

Be right back, pounding metamucil. I'll be down to 140 in no time! :eyeroll:

The fact that people believe shit like this is why people remain fat. Source doesn't matter, number does.

[Qalbert]

^thats completely wrong. Its a relatively minimal amount if you are looking to fiber to lose weight, its more for maintaining. The entire eating-absorbing/digesting process for something like 4 oz of celery is a net loss of 10 cals. So yeah you aren't gonna lose weight at that rate but it is still a net loss no matter how minute.

[Not Kuno]

Is there a big list on what is being taxed? I want to know if my Fresca is safe.

[archibaldcrane]

Heh. Completely wrong? Awesome. Look, fiber makes you feel fuller, and people that get proper fiber comsumption are less likely to overeat - meaning they don't eat as many calories.

But if it's fiber making you feel fuller and therefore you eat less calories, or you just choose to eat less calories because you want to lose weight and know the obviousness that calories in vs. calories out is the key, you will lose the same amount. People get caught up thinking that their digestive system is so intense that you're just burning all that food right the fuck up, and it's stupid.

In your celery example, which might be correct considering celery has virtually no calories to begin with and of course all food from cheeseburgers to plants takes energy to digest, say you burn 10 calories processing this high-fiber food. That's great, you're only 350 more servings of high-fiber celery away from burning one single pound of fat!

You are the one who brought up fiber offsetting fructose calories in an orange. You really think that the 31.5 calories from fructose in a large orange are burned up as the body processes the 2.5g of fiber in it? Considering the celery example you just tossed at me, (raw celery is 5 calories for 2g fiber in a 1/4 cup) you aren't going to get there.

[Rowe]

evidence against HFCS

Evidence against High Fructose Corn Syrup | Daniel Lubetzky

Fruit is good for you in moderation, fruit juices is less so. Drink water most of the time some beer some wine in moderation is not too bad. People who have studied nutrition or been into exercise cycling/weightlifting and took the time to read up on what to do nutritionally most likely read about not going overboard on fruits because of all the sugars.

[archibaldcrane]

Is there a big list on what is being taxed? I want to know if my Fresca is safe.

Fresca has 0g sugar and only 2 calories. If it's included then their purported reasons for the tax are completely transparently false.

[Not Kuno]

Fresca has 0g sugar and only 2 calories. If it's included then their purported reasons for the tax are completely transparently false.

Yeah that's why I'm asking. No HFCS either. It's soda with none of the bad shit.

[fantasticdan]

Refined sugar != sugar. Orange Juice contains naturally occurring fructose while most Coke products and Sodas in general contain either High Fructose Corn Syrup (which even the same amount of sugar in weight will contain FAR more sugar than standard fructose) or artificial sweeteners.

To recap - even if something contains more calories or more sugar, it doesn't make it unhealthier. The ingredients are what make it unhealthier. That's like saying white bread is healthier than wheat just because it has less calories and less sugar. Read the ingredients.

The fructose/glucose in HFCS or fruit juice are EXACTLY the same molecules, and juices have similar or more sugar/weight than soda. The only reason juice is preferable is the vitamins and minerals, it has nothing to do with the sugars.

Whole grain breads are better for you because of the FIBER, which is irrelevant in the discussion of juice vs soda. To go on a tangent; most 'whole grain' breads sold nowadays are just white-bread with more shit added back into it, a lot of them even have HFCS in them, lol...

[archibaldcrane]

evidence against HFCS

Evidence against High Fructose Corn Syrup | Daniel Lubetzky

That's evidence against fructose in general. Which is fine. Fructose might be "the bad sugar". I am not, by any means, denying that fructose is worse for the body than glucose. Fructose is processed by the liver, it doesn't trigger an insulin response, etc. etc.

However, fructose exists in fruit juice at similar rates to its percentage in HFCS-55, especially once you also take sucrose's 50% fructose into effect. Sweetening a beverage with grape juice concentrate vs. HFCS-55 is nearly a toss-up as far as the amount of fructose you're getting.

Saying HFCS is evil, drink fruit juice instead (which is what this bill basically encourages, discriminating between beverages by the amount of fruit juice, saying high fruit juice beverages are ok, but low fruit juice beverages that are still "sugary" are bad and should be discouraged, IN ORDER TO PREVENT CHILDHOOD OBESITY) is terribly disingenuous.

[Qalbert]

first of all the numbers I used were EXAMPLES not the actual numbers. second I have already stated it is not effective for weight loss, just that such foods can be eaten without causing a net gain in calories, while drinking sugary drinks leads to a gain. in addition I said offset not balance. Any extra burnt calories help, thus the few that are burned by eating the fruit makes it still better than drinking the juice. Offset does not mean cancel out. Learn to read.

[archibaldcrane]

first of all the numbers I used were EXAMPLES not the actual numbers. second I have already stated it is not effective for weight loss, just that such foods can be eaten without causing a net gain in calories, while drinking sugary drinks leads to a gain. in addition I said offset not balance. Any extra burnt calories help, thus the few that are burned by eating the fruit makes it still better than drinking the juice. Offset does not mean cancel out. Learn to read.

Way to change your argument.

You said that the fiber in an orange offsets (meaning net gain of 0 calories) from the fructose in the orange. That's clearly bullshit. That's what I'm saying - are you still trying to say that it "offsets" the calories from fructose? Does it "partially offset" the calories? Maybe a tiny bit - but not the calories from fructose in particular, it would be a portion of all the calories in the orange. Why single out fructose unless you are trying to be confusing, or more likely, don't really have a good grasp on what you're talking about?

And you'll get no argument from me that eating fruit is "better for you" than drinking juice, but since we're discussing beverages it's also pretty irrelevant.

Actual numbers matter. Actually, just one number matters. Calories.