The "Should Tanks Blink" thread.

[Tricen]

Didn't they make a new way to target people through blinks in the last update?

[Furionstormrage]

I still see the main argument against blinking being targeting issues, which I had thought was not a very valid point with the new <stpt> and <stal> commands being implemented.

Going with that, what exactly is the targeting problem that people are talking about?

Why exactly are you having problems supporting a blinking tank?

[Callisto]

Yeah, that was pretty much the entire reason for this thread being brought back up, lol. Using <stpt> and <stal> you target people using the name list only, and someone blinking while targeted will not make you lose targeting.

I'm not for certain how well it works when only using a keyboard, I did start using <stpt> for my Pianissimo/Etudes/Preludes on BRD though, and it's fucking awesome if you use a controller.

I still am trying to figure out if <stal> will also let you target party members in addition to targeting alliance members, or if it's just the 2 outside parties(I haven't done anything in an alliance in like 2 weeks so can't test it myself). The only downside is you can't really use them if you're outside of the alliance, for my g/f's WHM I was just going to have her make a 2nd book that uses <stal> macros and keep her first one normal, and she can switch books as needed.

[ringthree]

Didn't they make a new way to target people through blinks in the last update?

Yeah, but it does take some getting used to and isn't universally useful. I am used to pre-targeting with controller then hitting the macro, and it's kind of the reverse, so as someone else said there is a problem with muscle memory. It also doesn't work outside of party/alliance.

[Tricen]

So why not have a healer for each party? Or are you talking about large scale events IE Dynamis/Einherjar?

[sleekmotorwurkz]

So why not have a healer for each party? Or are you talking about large scale events IE Dynamis/Einherjar?

I would think it would be even harder on large scale events to target someone you specifically want to target via <stpc> or <t> in between the other 30+ people that are around

[Callisto]

I would think it would be even harder on large scale events to target someone you specifically want to target via <stpc> or <t> in between the other 30+ people that are around

^

Unless they aren't in the alliance, but usually I only use the name list and up/down on controller pad while using <stpc> anyways, the only difference now is that if someone swaps as I'm cycling through I don't have to start all over.

I don't even remember the last time I did something with more than one alliance as well, but as I said you can always just keep a mirrored book with <st> for when you do something like that.

[Tricen]

Well yeah. I'm just saying... The debate is blink vs not blink. But it is such a situational type of thing.

[Kaeko]

<t> or actually directly curing the person with an alliance macro is the fastest way to target action since it requires the least number of hand actions to complete the in game action.

For instance, I use <t> for my BLM macros as it requires the fewest hand movements and makes things most fluid. I use <stnpc> for sleeps as crowd control requires tabbing to be fast and accurate - you give up speed in getting the sleep off (requires 2 actions - 1 macro press in addition to an ENTER), but gain better control over tabbing.

This new non-blink system seems to be a tab based system. This means it takes 2 hand actions to get the proper cure off, which is slightly slower. If the tank wants to blink like a Christmas Tree light and you're on a PS2 it's not a bad alternative, but it is in fact slower due to 2 hand actions over 1. It's very minor and you only lose/gain a split second, but it can become noticeable. Certain does when I consider the type of targeting system on soloing.

Lastly, I cannot ever use Blinkmenot due to the fact it will cancel my blinks if I target myself. If you're a SCH and trying to be mobile, this will instantly kill you because you will lose access to blink casting. It's still a great tool, but it's not perfect either.

I don't personally have a problem with blinking tanks, but I suspect certain people do. Then it's really about compromises like the more level headed ones here have suggested. I still think the macro all but the 'blink' slots is a great alternative and compromise. You don't see a lot of tank build threads on that either. Would be nice to see a full discussion on it.

[Riel]

Is it really that hard to figure out:

IF YOU WHINE BECAUSE YOUR TANK(S) BLINK(S), YOU SUCK.

PERIOD.

We don't care about your muscle memory, or if you think anyone who doesn't fail at fucking healing is "cheating." Go chat on alla with that noob-righteous attitude.



Kaeko: I have respect for you, but I don't think we agree. You are essentially saying that we should accommodate these crappy healers. I think we should call them out and let them go back to alla as mentioned above.

[Kaeko]

Kaeko: I have respect for you, but I don't think we agree. You are essentially saying that we should accommodate these crappy healers. I think we should call them out and let them go back to alla as mentioned above.

My overall view of video games is I'm personally very good at them, but I won't go above and beyond to only play with people near my level. I accept the fact some aren't as flexible and still manage to have fun with them. It's a more pragmatic view and it works still as nothing in this game requires truly this level of optimization with the sole exception of difficult solos.

If I was going to just call everyone a shitty player that couldn't do what I do I would basically have no friends online. This is a pretty arrogant statement on my part, but it's true in my eyes - I don't go around bashing BLMs because they can't solo whole events. To me, it's OK to use a macro system that will get affect by blinks. It's not as good but it's still acceptable to me. It's not like someone going BLM/SMN or melee SMN.

I respect everyone's opinions though. It's an interesting discussion and a part of me is just being on the minority to play devil's advocate. Still, I find it funny the lack willingness to be pragmatic about even simple things like this. Then again, I'm in a rather laid back LS where most members aren't recruited based on skill.

[Callisto]

My overall view of video games is I'm personally very good at them, but I won't go above and beyond to only play with people near my level. I accept the fact some aren't as flexible and still manage to have fun with them. It's a more pragmatic view and it works still as nothing in this game requires truly this level of optimization with the sole exception of difficult solos.

Something something Wii player...

If I was going to just call everyone a shitty player that couldn't do what I do I would basically have no friends online. This is a pretty arrogant statement on my part, but it's true in my eyes - I don't go around bashing BLMs because they can't solo whole events. To me, it's OK to use a macro system that will get affect by blinks. It's not as good but it's still acceptable to me. It's not like someone going BLM/SMN or melee SMN.

I will say that as an unintended side-effect of your adventures(and of course, Avesta's) I see way too much of "pffft that's easy [insert job] can solo that" without really taking into consideration the amount of preparation and the quality of gear required for such things.

The same can be said for PLD tanking, I thought of this reading Wop's response but some people don't take into account that just because Gjalla BRDs and Aegis/Haute PLDs are the standard for them, it isn't for everyone. I feel the need for blinking often and optimizing each cast because I'm rocking NQ Dusk Feet and Gallant Body until I get some Homam drops, yet for the betterment of the group I would sometimes have to try and make the most of what I do have so that we can successfully kill what we're fighting.

Sure not-blinking yet remaining at the hate cap is fine when you have D.Rings/Hydra Hauberts/Aegis/Haute/Homam hands/feet/legs/wtfever, but when you don't you have to go a bit more out of your way to make up the difference.

[Riel]

My overall view of video games is I'm personally very good at them, but I won't go above and beyond to only play with people near my level. I accept the fact some aren't as flexible and still manage to have fun with them. It's a more pragmatic view and it works still as nothing in this game requires truly this level of optimization with the sole exception of difficult solos.

If I was going to just call everyone a shitty player that couldn't do what I do I would basically have no friends online. This is a pretty arrogant statement on my part, but it's true in my eyes - I don't go around bashing BLMs because they can't solo whole events. To me, it's OK to use a macro system that will get affect by blinks. It's not as good but it's still acceptable to me. It's not like someone going BLM/SMN or melee SMN.

I respect everyone's opinions though. It's an interesting discussion and a part of me is just being on the minority to play devil's advocate.

That is the difference. To me it is not acceptable to be that crappy of a mage. Half of the posters on this thread clearly suck and want to rationalize it by blaming tanks for optimizing their gear.

Beyond the horrible mages shouting "omg stops teh blinking," some posters in this thread seem to take the attitude that the issue may not be a tank's fault per se, but it's their problem (and therefore at least partially their responsibility to deal with it) because some mages are too poor of players.

I would respond that it's only their problem if they group with mages who can't do their jobs properly. Laughing anyone out of the room who complains about tanks blinking is also a good way to encourage them to go learn how to play.

I'm not saying everyone should be able to solo b.remnants but they should at least be able to heal their tank even when they're swapping gear around, and we certainly shouldn't make contingencies for when they can't when ignoring such noobs is an option.

[ringthree]

So why not have a healer for each party? Or are you talking about large scale events IE Dynamis/Einherjar?

Oh, I am not saying it's not useful, I am just saying it is not the universal cure-all some people are making it out to be.

It's pretty cool actually, and looks to be pulled from the party system because it's just like the change leader function.

[Kaeko]

Beyond the horrible mages shouting "omg stops teh blinking," some posters in this thread seem to take the attitude that the issue may not be a tank's fault per se, but it's their problem (and therefore at least partially their responsibility to deal with it) because some mages are too poor of players.

I would respond that it's only their problem if they group with mages who can't do their jobs properly. Laughing anyone out of the room who complains about tanks blinking is also a good way to encourage them to go learn how to play.

This is basically my argument that if you must place initial blame it would fall on the mage for not handling it, but it's the tank's problem. I will say that it's just plain easier to lose out on some minor stats and fix the issue by no blinking than teaching a mage to adjust and/or just kicking them.

This comes back to my overall view of playing video games though. To me, I can still have fun with players even if they may be lacking in certain skill sets. It seems a lot of you can't and would rather 'teach them' and/or 'teach them a lesson' instead.

I believe it takes very few knowledgeable players to make an extremely strong team or LS. You don't need this level of optimization to even extremely-low man things. Being a stickler for this type of minor detail at an actual event just causes drama, hurt feelings, and bad, lingering negativities. I suppose on a forum flame away, no one is getting hurt - but when your friends (LS members are friends right?) are having issues, I just don't see how it's good for anyone to call people out like that.

Now if you're in a super hardcore LS that recruits on skill skill skill then yes I'd go all out trying to optimize because the goal of your LS is such. That's too much for me personally though. You can be in a very respected and successful LS without doing anything near this - in my opinion you'll end up having more fun too.

[Braveheart]

Ive not read every individual post and pld is my main. My advice to anyone levelling pld and i think who this was who the original poster aimed this at is

try both! ( after you hit 75)

see what suits yourself and your mages best!

Theyre are benefits small though they are in blinking like a Christmas tree i tend to play this as i still find the game fun. If you enjoy being 1337! and doing everything to perfection blink till u & the rest of the alliance have a seizure. If your mage friends are prone to going ape shit at blink tanks and dont use them. Expect to recieve a r1 from the local whm who s secretly cursing u...

I tend to talk to people ask how they do things if the healers use the new macro <stpt> i have gear set on macros for them. If the main healer in the party uses them i use, if not i keep well away as it can mess up when u least want it to happen. consistency is a good thing but so is trying new things.

If mages are not using them and u decided u 100% want to use them ask them to try on smaller stuff they may like it but if not the pld should adapt after all they are the ones theyre to assist you in staying alive do not blink tank unless the mages are comfortable with it or know how it works you d be surprised how many dont use <stpt>

To all that have posted vet plds/mages alike, no matter what side of the argument u take, Theyre are those who are too stubborn to change and this thread is like reinventing the wheel. few people will see something that changes theyre minds about the way they tank.

try both for a while.

pick 1 and stick with it. Let others know they way u work this thread will not change vets most of them have decided already.

[Callisto]

I'm not sure what's with all you white trash bastards that have blinking Christmas trees to begin with, I just use plain white lights.

[Zosi]

I'm not sure what's with all you white trash bastards that have blinking Christmas trees to begin with, I just use plain white lights.

Blinking Christmas trees can keep up shadows and hold hate better. Even Genbu would pwn your wimpy little plain "white lights" Christmas tree.

[Callisto]

HAHA GOT YOU I CELEBRATE KWANZA

[richardd]

HAHA GOT YOU I CELEBRATE KWANZA

hahahaha, i like this guy.

i was told to contribute to this thread
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9...2221139qx5.png
i'm a blinker too. But like i said, my healers name a macro pallete with my name on it. So even before blinkmenot, it was never an issue. And i HAVE to blink. Im on a job thats not as easy as pressing a sentinel macro when my shadows are down but i can still get the job done just as good as any aegis.