Some Corsair questions...

[Carrilei]

/Nin's DW enhancements for Joy+MK aren't about to come close to /Rng's Acc bonuses and Sharpshot+Barrage. Nor /War's Berserk and other things, like Att Bonus, a few base STR, Warcry, etc.

/Nin is a damage mitigation sub for COR. Use it when you need to negate serious damage/negative effects. No, merits is not one of these instances (at least as far as dealing damage - merit pulling, sure)

There's nothing wrong with using Detonator as long as it's close to what your Slugs are doing; whether it is or not is entirely dependant on the situation.

[Auspice]

I used /NIN up to 70 until I could use my Joyeuse because I shot for TP(ugh) and loved having dual trailer's kukri then I switched to /RNG. If I remember right even with Suppa dual wielding Joy and M.Kris nearly doubles your delay(compared to Joy alone) if they both single hit, right?

I played around with /WAR the other day in merit and didn't see any noticable increase in my WS dmg even with berserk and warcry. I don't really have any other melee jobs so I was asking the friends I was in meripo with. My Detonators did the exact same dmg with and without warcry/berserk which confused the shit out of me. The only thing that punched up the damage a bit was double STR etudes which even still didn't increase my output too much.

I'm glad I switched from Slug to Detonator though especially since I have martial gun since I'm getting higher and more reliable WS damage. Just gotta pray my bonecraft friend comes through and I can test out Corsair's Gun+1 to see how it compares.

[Bregor]

Detonator? lol...

Give me my detonators!

http://www.hackwrench.com/idunno/images/hans_tal.jpg

[Vedder]

If you have a decent WS build Detonator is actually a much more reliable and more powerful WS.

I'm trying to get a Corsair's Gun +1 synthed to see if I can pull higher Detonator numbers but I'm not sure if it'll make much difference with Martial's TP bonus.

The other day I topped off at just over 1400 on Detonator with 200TP on birds; I'm determined to break 1500 goddamnit!

I just recently changed up my Detonator build with Martial Gun to get rid of some Racc and add STR. As a result, I've been able to get off Detonators in the 1450 range on birds as /DNC with sushi and Chaos Roll & one Minuet.

Since I don't have any merits left to spend in combat skills, I don't have any Marksmanship upgrades and I find Detonator to average higher than Slug Shot for me (since Slug likes to miss more) in the limited number of times I've been parsed on COR.

[Carrilei]

Martial Gun will yield far more damage on Detonator than Corsair's Gun +1. HQ Corsair's is the choice when your only damage is via Quick Draw.

[Cyr]

Or sub RNG and actually be able to hit Slugs using meat... Detonator? lol...

Lol, the effect of martial gun makes detonator a force to be reckoned with. It will allow you offensive power comparable to slug shot, without the accuracy loss. If you sub rng, you are gonna get hit waaaay too much; because if you are playing the job correctly, you will find yourself tanking birds against ridills, relics, or whatever else you like.

[Carrilei]

Martial Gun has the same strong effect on Slug's Raac (just for the record), it's the best gun for either weaponskill by a significant margin. Det comperable to Slug? Like I said, dependant on the situation. Higher Raat instances are generally more in favor of Slug, and this is mostly in reference to potential large Raat boosts such as Minuet(s), Chaos Roll, Berserk, meat, etc. And no, a DD sub job will not 'get you hit waaaay too much,' if the DD's you're with are good. If they suck, sure, /Nin would be more useful..

[Kerberoz]

Getting hit too much? Who cares when the mobs die in 10-15 sec? If you die it's because your healer is failing. You're losing 22acc, 25racc, sharpshot, and barrage (or berserk and warcry) by subbing NIN. That's why your slugs don't hit.

[Kilhart]

If you have a decent WS build Detonator is actually a much more reliable and more powerful WS.

I'm trying to get a Corsair's Gun +1 synthed to see if I can pull higher Detonator numbers but I'm not sure if it'll make much difference with Martial's TP bonus.

The other day I topped off at just over 1400 on Detonator with 200TP on birds; I'm determined to break 1500 goddamnit!

More reliable? In certain situations, yes. More powerful? Don't kid yourself. I've broken 2k with Detonator on birds, but that doesn't deem it the be-all-end-all for birds, especially without a frame of reference.

[matix]

shouldn't dual wield multi hit weapons, DW will slow u down considerably

[Vedder]

More reliable? In certain situations, yes. More powerful? Don't kid yourself. I've broken 2k with Detonator on birds, but that doesn't deem it the be-all-end-all for birds, especially without a frame of reference.

You don't appear to be saying anything of value in this reply, could you elaborate?

I think most people are saying not to completely ignore either Slug or Detonator, which seems to be what you are saying unless you care to cite some examples.

I can't see any reasonable person just stamping their feet and saying they'll only use one or the other bar none, especially with the TP bonus of Martial Gun.

[Kilhart]

You don't appear to be saying anything of value in this reply, could you elaborate?

I think most people are saying not to completely ignore either Slug or Detonator, which seems to be what you are saying unless you care to cite some examples.

I can't see any reasonable person just stamping their feet and saying they'll only use one or the other bar none, especially with the TP bonus of Martial Gun.

The person I quoted was directly stating that Detonator is a more powerful WS than Slug Shot if you have a decent WS build, which is mathematically incorrect. How is responding to that claim without value?

Also, how am I ignoring Detonator? I'm saying it's not the be-all-end-all, and if someone claims Detonator is both both more reliable AND more powerful than Slug Shot, I'm fairly sure that means they find no positives to Slug.

[Vedder]

The person I quoted was directly stating that Detonator is a more powerful WS than Slug Shot if you have a decent WS build, which is mathematically incorrect. How is responding to that claim without value?

Also, how am I ignoring Detonator? I'm saying it's not the be-all-end-all, and if someone claims Detonator is both both more reliable AND more powerful than Slug Shot, I'm fairly sure that means they find no positives to Slug.

I'm not trying be combative, but you mentioned that Detonator isn't more powerful, yet you've popped off 2k Detonators on birds before (way more than I've done to date). I was hoping you could provide a little anecdotal information like your own WS setups and such...

I'm still tweaking my WS builds on COR, but so far Detonator has been parsing slightly better for me than Slug... even though my Slugs top out a bit higher, it misses more which in turn draws down its average over the course of a party. I'd like to know what you're doing to so heavily endorse Slug Shot.

[Kilhart]

I'm not trying be combative, but you mentioned that Detonator isn't more powerful, yet you've popped off 2k Detonators on birds before (way more than I've done to date). I was hoping you could provide a little anecdotal information like your own WS setups and such...

I'm still tweaking my WS builds on COR, but so far Detonator has been parsing slightly better for me than Slug... even though my Slugs top out a bit higher, it misses more which in turn draws down its average over the course of a party. I'd like to know what you're doing to so heavily endorse Slug Shot.

It was an epeen situation that I referred to in order to demonstrate the uselessness of these numbers without a basis of comparison, but if I recall it was on /WAR with Berserk active, coeurl sub, chaos/minuet, STR/ratt build, and Dia II/Angon active. I don't endorse either WS exclusively; the point I was trying to make was one against using "oh I've hit x damage with Detonator" as justification over Slug without providing Slug damage in a similar situation. I'm not trying to say Slug will always parse better than Detonator, as there are obvious accuracy differences between the two WSes; my point is that Slug is more POWERFUL - a point that I thought was obvious to us all.

[Kylen]

This is a dumb argument. They're both good weaponskills, and which is superior depends on a lot of factors.

I've found that the difference in damage between Detonator and Slug increases as I get more attack buffs. In a normal merit party situation, with just Chaos Roll and 0-1 Minuets active, the Detonator tends to hit for around 100-150 damage less than Slug. If I have Berserk, Chaos, double minuet, and maybe a Dia II or an Angon, though, my Slugs have outdamaged my Detonators by 500 or so. Detonator of course will always have superior accuracy.

[Auspice]

It was an epeen situation that I referred to in order to demonstrate the uselessness of these numbers without a basis of comparison, but if I recall it was on /WAR with Berserk active, coeurl sub, chaos/minuet, STR/ratt build, and Dia II/Angon active. I don't endorse either WS exclusively; the point I was trying to make was one against using "oh I've hit x damage with Detonator" as justification over Slug without providing Slug damage in a similar situation. I'm not trying to say Slug will always parse better than Detonator, as there are obvious accuracy differences between the two WSes; my point is that Slug is more POWERFUL - a point that I thought was obvious to us all.

The TP mod on Detonator is damage and the TP mod on Slug Shot is accuracy, right? Maybe I'm just not using the right gear but I pull higher numbers with 200% TP Detonators with my Martial Gun than I could ever get with Slug Shots. Neither are "bad" but I get a few hundred more from Det. *shrug*

[Strange]

First off, I just plain won't go as COR to a merit party unless I get to be one of the DDs (meaning no pulling or healing, melee and rolls only).

As a DD, Joyeuse is the way to go. Can't beat more damage and TP.

Martial Gun is THE gun for WS. Shooting's gun is Coffinmaker and QD's gun is Corsair+1. However, as I am a melee COR that only uses gun WS, I only bothered with getting Martial and it has served me well.

As for sub, go WAR for merits. COR sub always depends on the situation.

[Carrilei]

/ra TPing, Martial is still my choice, but at least it's pretty much unanimous now Martial during melee TP.

Some things to consider about /ra TP. Chances are, if you have to resort to this, the mob is probably very difficult (evasive). So Detonator is a likely weaponskill, and there's no getting around Martial if you're going to use Det. To me, the enormous Raac bonus of 100 extra TP on Slug also makes Martial the gun of choice for /ra TPing there, though I suppose it's closer to being debatable than with Detonator.

[Kerberoz]

Shooting for TP doesn't always mean that the mob is highly evasive, sometimes just a death sentence to melee it and feed tp. Odin, Ixion, etc.

I don't see much point in unlocking coffinmaker, though. If you're shooting, you're still going to be WS'ing at some point.

[Carrilei]

If you're shooting, you're still going to be WS'ing at some point.

True; what I've quoted was my basic point.