THF Treasure Hunter question

[Valisk]

More frustrating is the fact that items obtained by TH don't show up in the chatlog.

"You find a Fire Crystal on the Fafnir
Lordwafik finds an additional <Abjuration> on the Fafnir".

That's what I wanna see.

//////

Excellent idea.

[Baelorn]

I've always been curious if the THF being higher on the hate list has any effect. I forget how long ago it was but we were farming phaubo organs in sea as BLM, BRD, THF and near the end of each fight I'd use Accomplice on the BLM. It seemed that the droprate was higher but yeah...placebo.

[el_tio]

I've always been curious if the THF being higher on the hate list has any effect. I forget how long ago it was but we were farming phaubo organs in sea as BLM, BRD, THF and near the end of each fight I'd use Accomplice on the BLM. It seemed that the droprate was higher but yeah...placebo.

I'm pretty sure that's why all the thf relic set has enmity on it--to make sure the TH "sticks".

[Jodwahh]

In the name of God please say I just got whooshed.

[el_tio]

You tell me.

[MaachaQ]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was trying to find the TH testing someone did a while back, when they killed a bunch of mobs with either main hand THF Knife or Subhand THF knife. I remember a bunch of charts and tables, but can't seem to find the right thread... Anyone know where it is/how to find it?

I got into a debate with someone today about this, and wanted some real evidence to back me up ^^;

edit: Found it ^^; http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/63785...re-hunter.html

[Enedin]

I'm still in the process of testing TH (got other stuff to do or I would have had a better answer atm), I'll post my current results but it's nothing spectacular atm.

http://users.telenet.be/jandebruyn/THTEST5.PNG

This chart has been critisized by some as hard to read, if you have no idea how it works, read it again, ask me, but don't post that this is a crap chart. There's a valuable information in here, and due to my large sample sizes (on most mobs), this information is highly accurate.

- Everything is done solo, no AoEs are used.
- Thief's Knife was never used.
- Assassin's armlets were never used.

Explanation of terms...

- TH0 = no treasure hunter trait, like say a PLD/NIN.
- TH1 = only having the first Treasure Hunter trait, PLD75/THF37.
- TH2 = being a THF45+, so having both Treasure Hunter traits. THF75.
- THII = impossible to get; only having the second Treasure Hunter trait.

- TH1% increase = how much TH1 increases drop rates over TH0.
- THII% increase = how much THII increases drop rates over TH1.
- TH2% increase = how much TH2 increases drop rates over TH0.

So in short, (TH2% increase) = (TH1% increase) + (THII% increase), since TH2=TH1+THII.

If this doesn't make sense just yet, read it again. I'm testing the potency of both traits.

Expectations so far...

- Full moon doesn't increase drop rates.
- TH kicks in even if you one-shot mobs. (not aoe)

Then the big question...

- So far, dungeons seem to benefit more from TH1 than outside areas. Maybe this isn't related to the dungeon but the mob type/family. Although, because both rabbits and tigers are beasts, I doubt the family thing.

But why would TH1 have a larger effect in dungeons? More testing inc. Also notice the error ratio, it's still fairly large on some mobs. This summer I may have more time to eliminate that.

On NMs this kind of testing is insane to do, but I assume same rules apply. If this testing doesn't show that TH isn't a placebo, then I don't know what will

[MaachaQ]

The debate I was having tonight was about if TH from Thief Knife kicked in when you had the weapon in sub hand not main hand. We were going back and forth about other weapons whose stats did or did not work when you put the weapon in your off hand. People still disagree about this wherever I've read about it, was hoping some of the testing could prove or disprove it, but I need to read the thread again to see if there were any real results...

[Enedin]

God, not this again. It works in both hands, the end.

[MaachaQ]

God, not this again. It works in both hands, the end.

I know >.> No matter what I said the person in question was convinced that TH had to be main hand... I was trying to find some testing to show him to prove it... Maybe I'll go do some testing myself sometime and show him the results.

[Enedin]

Let's assume that it increases drops by 1%. (because every other trait+1 thing works like that) Which can already mean 2 things:

- On something with 20% drop rate, the drop rate becomes 21%.
- On something with 20% drop rate, the drop rate becomes 20.02%.

Pretty sure it's the last, but that's just personal preference atm. Now... To test such a small increase with at least 95% accuracy, I say you'd need around 10000 kills with and 10000 kills w/o. Really, that's not worth it lol.

It's a question that has been open for a long time, but since even a provoke qualifies as an action on the mob (for TH to stick), what does that have to do with weapon? There is no reason it wouldn't work in sub slot, so I don't see why people think that. But, if you really really want to be sure, before you kill an NM, equip it in main for a sec, hit it and unequip. That works too

[Drunknmunky]

To Enedin.

Thanks for taking your time to make the TH chart because from this day on anyone who keeps arguing about how treasure hunter works all I need to do is to post your chart up.


~ Thanks ~

[Faye]

Quick question - does TH affect Rare/Ex drops? I was always under the impression that it did (/thf for Valkurm Emp, Lizzy, etc.)... but 1~2 months ago when I was hunting a Dragoon's testimony someone in my LS said it didn't... I've heard both. Clarification please?

[tobyjuggler]

Kill a few imps without the THF in your pt, see how many items drop per kill. Kill a few imps in your pt and land hate on the THF without the THF doing anything, see how many items drop per kill. Kill an an imp with the THF in your pt performing an offensive action, see how many items drop per kill. If more items drop on each successive test, you'll know what effect the presence of the THF has on your farming.

[MaachaQ]

The TH question will never be completely answered, no matter how much SE tells us. Some people are still superstitious and ask THFs to main hand the THF knife, get kill, open chests, and yes even stack enmity to make sure TH sticks (NO I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY OF THIS, BUT I HAVE TO ARGUE WITH PEOPLE ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME). No matter how much SE tells us about it, people believe in what they believe in, and take their placebos happily.

I'll just say this, NO WAY IN HELL will my husband put Mandau in sub and TK in main... /angry

[Enedin]

To Enedin.

Thanks for taking your time to make the TH chart because from this day on anyone who keeps arguing about how treasure hunter works all I need to do is to post your chart up.


~ Thanks ~

Oh wow, thanks. I just wanna figure out why TH1 and THII behave differently to some mobs/in some areas.

[hagun]

TH is a lie and charts of witchcraft will ne'er sway me.

[B r y own]

Treasure hunter is applied as such.

Thief needs to be engaged with the target. Also any treasure hunter gear must be equiped. By "engaged" i mean they need "hate" and not "aggro"

There is a difference between hate and aggro and if your interested in this sort of thing there are a multitude of other tests you can search for.

Since trick attack is described as transferring ones hate to another target then it should work. Another way to find out if it does or doesn't would be to test trick attack and see if it falls under "hate" or just "aggro"

As for in which hand Thief's knife needs to be in. It works in either slot, if there was another requirement it would most likely be listed on the dagger itself or perhaps as "latent effect"

For the enmity comment listed about Thief artifact/relic. The use for enmity on thief is so they can manipulate the enmity of the party/alliance in order to provide support. Considering this then the amount of enmity would not relate to treasure hunter.

Also something that would be good to go by for those with Treasure Hunter enhanced items.

You can use other items for more damage input during the course of the fight. But you will need to equip your treasure hunter items in order to get the effect at the time your target is killed. Otherwise treasure hunter effect would not be active.

Personally I use two different macro sets for thief. Main macro set does not have gear swaps listed for hands to avoid deactivating the TH effect by mistake. This set is the one i use for farming/fast kills so that i never have to worry about equiping my "TH4" in time. Second macro set has damage dealing gears along with a macro labeled "TH4" which equips knife and hands to activate the effect. I would only use the Second macro set for things like HNM or in areas where TH isn't useful or needed.

From views on many tests and theories this is what I have come to stand by. ^^ but in most cases it can be "common sense"


Sorry this ended up being a lot to read but i think it will help those that are new to TH or perhaps just want to bring out a little bit more out of their current thief set ups

[Deadgye]

Let's assume that it increases drops by 1%. (because every other trait+1 thing works like that) Which can already mean 2 things:

- On something with 20% drop rate, the drop rate becomes 21%.
- On something with 20% drop rate, the drop rate becomes 20.02%.

Pretty sure it's the last, but that's just personal preference atm. Now... To test such a small increase with at least 95% accuracy, I say you'd need around 10000 kills with and 10000 kills w/o. Really, that's not worth it lol.

Not anywhere near the needed sample size, but.. Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

[Valyana]

Thief needs to be engaged with the target. Also any treasure hunter gear must be equiped. By "engaged" i mean they need "hate" and not "aggro"

These words are unclear. The THF does not need to draw his weapon (what I think of as "engaged") to stick TH; any action performed on the mob will do. Ranged attack, Steal, THF/BLM Sleepga, whatever. Basically, anything that would claim the mob.

Collaborating a party member with hate, or resting near the mob, gets the THF hate but does not stick TH.