Guttler Owners. A Few Questions.

[Kaeko]

I'll throw this out since someone mentioned using Snarl + Pet.

It's really really hard for a BST pet to shed CE 'hate' because its HP is so high. It seems the follow the same general formula for hate shedding where the amount shed is inversely proportional to damage taken. Because pets have so much more HP than players, the amount of hate shed is often 8-10 times less than a real player.

Never done a test on Snarl though.

[Tormentormike]

Chances are the UAE guy bought the account and will roll back after getting your account stripped too.

If it does turn out this way, please post that too so I can laugh at your expense. Can't trust UAE 99% of the time.

[Okan]

Bst/Nins during the kite, Charm is on 15 sec timer and gives strong hate as well as bind effect, its suprising how much breathing room that second or so of bind gives the kiter.

Though needless to say, swapping gear/weapons and blinking completely negates the "stop and perform action" allowing you to gain a few extra steps. I can't count how many times I've outrun a goblin or orc because of the bind+blink.

One thing to say though about meripos. Ive partied with a few bsts, not extremely well geared but had lots of endgame stuff because they have a war or a thf. Meripo is all about DPS. Anytime you stop to make your pet do an action its taking away from your DPS (which is slightly less then war to begin with). Id rather just have a well geared war with autotarget on whacking away at things... though ill take a well geared bst over a gimp war anyday.

And the WAR using Berserk is still taking a second or two before he does another action, except in melee burn parties with BST, you are putting an EM'ish mob on your tough pet and that alone should be closing any gap between WAR and BST. You can't just compare the BST and the WAR. The pet is part of the deal. God, this is the same argument I had to make in WoW with Hunters and Warlocks. The pets DPS/DoT/Damage counts towards the owner. If you played WoW at all during TBC, you realized that when people opened their eyes to Hunter pet damage, the Beastmastery build (LOLIRONIC? I think no) did the MOST damage over almost every other class regardless of gear. Sure, there were circumstances that differed.

And in the same respect of SMN, with Snarl, the BST is free threat DPS and when the pet does take damage, you just let the pet die. We have jugs or we're near pets that we can charm and use. We can release it if we need to also to transfer the hate back to the tank. Everyone crying about TP spam already realize, but don't want to admit, that almost all bosses spam regardless of getting hit or not. Personally, I don't think a boss needs 100%+ TP to use an ability, but this is just me. This is why we use RDM/DRK or some bosses or find ways to eliminate certain abilities that we know we can't handle or want to deal with. Example is kiting Vrtra to avoid the Sleepga. When the "in thing to do" was to Aspir all of Kirin's mana a long long long time ago.

Whatever, I'm talking to a bunch of brick walls anyway.

[Liquidedust]

And the WAR using Berserk is still taking a second or two before he does another action, except in melee burn parties with BST, you are putting an EM'ish mob on your tough pet and that alone should be closing any gap between WAR and BST. You can't just compare the BST and the WAR. The pet is part of the deal. God, this is the same argument I had to make in WoW with Hunters and Warlocks. The pets DPS/DoT/Damage counts towards the owner. If you played WoW at all during TBC, you realized that when people opened their eyes to Hunter pet damage, the Beastmastery build (LOLIRONIC? I think no) did the MOST damage over almost every other class regardless of gear. Sure, there were circumstances that differed

To be brutally honest I am both WAR and BST (and I am in MonsterInc so I do do stuff in a pet linkshell), when it comes to merits BST+pet wont even come close to my WARs damage when combined its closer to 65-75% of my Warriors overall damage.

Sadly I have to say, BST is no where near ideal for a merit situation and it is one of the last jobs I'd ever consider taking out to merit.

[Kurt Cobain]

Chances are the UAE guy bought the account and will roll back after getting your account stripped too.

If it does turn out this way, please post that too so I can laugh at your expense. Can't trust UAE EVER

Ý

[Riel]

To be brutally honest I am both WAR and BST (and I am in MonsterInc so I do do stuff in a pet linkshell), when it comes to merits BST+pet wont even come close to my WARs damage when combined its closer to 65-75% of my Warriors overall damage.

Sadly I have to say, BST is no where near ideal for a merit situation and it is one of the last jobs I'd ever consider taking out to merit.

It's sad to hear this from a MonstersInc member. You're supposed to be less ignorant... Can you post your BST and WAR merit TP/WS sets and maybe some parses? What are your merits like? What jugs are you using to merit? etc.

[Ahlah]

Originally Posted by Liquidedust
To be brutally honest I am both WAR and BST (and I am in MonsterInc so I do do stuff in a pet linkshell), when it comes to merits BST+pet wont even come close to my WARs damage when combined its closer to 65-75% of my Warriors overall damage.

Sadly I have to say, BST is no where near ideal for a merit situation and it is one of the last jobs I'd ever consider taking out to merit.

It's sad for me not because the statement is made by someone from Monster Inc. It's the fact that ppl in Monster Inc. will have to openly admit it on BG but don't have the gut to tell the truth on Alla BST forum. Every BST on that forum still believe Maneater/Temp BST with LL can outparse Ebody Maneater/Ridill WAR.

Like all other relic weapons, only upgrade them because you love the job or for utility purpose (Aegis latent, Relic horn' song bonus, Apo's haste/drain effect), never do it for epeen damage. You never know when SE is going to change the whole melee mechanism again. Kikoku is the best example. Also 1handed weapon is a dead end (with the exception of Mandau for obvious reason), why bother with Guttler since damage is all you care? If WAR have to give up Axe/sword build how do you think Guttler BST is going to keep up with 2h melee job? If BST is allowed to use Guillointine, BST/SAM will probably outparse Axe/Axe BST since they can now keep Hasso up all the time and use Snarl to shed hate.

[Kairos]

I looked into upgrading guttler, but decided in the end that I will upgrade aymur before I bother with something like guttler. At least aymur you can use while soloing stuff you can't melee or when you can't be in melee range, while guttler is really useless for the pet. I just feel like if you want to do huge melee spike or Dot damage on your character, bst is not the job for it really.

Like all other relic weapons, only upgrade them because you love the job or for utility purpose (Aegis latent, Relic horn' song bonus, Apo's haste/drain effect), never do it for epeen damage. You never know when SE is going to change the whole melee mechanism again

better relic advice was never said. I don't think anyway...

[sleekmotorwurkz]

And the WAR using Berserk is still taking a second or two before he does another action, except in melee burn parties with BST, you are putting an EM'ish mob on your tough pet and that alone should be closing any gap between WAR and BST. You can't just compare the BST and the WAR. The pet is part of the deal. God, this is the same argument I had to make in WoW with Hunters and Warlocks. The pets DPS/DoT/Damage counts towards the owner. If you played WoW at all during TBC, you realized that when people opened their eyes to Hunter pet damage, the Beastmastery build (LOLIRONIC? I think no) did the MOST damage over almost every other class regardless of gear. Sure, there were circumstances that differed.

I clearly said that you add in the pets damage onto the bsts, but as far as abilities...Difference? War uses zerk/wc/agressor every 5 min. Assuming you are killing average 8-10 mobs per 5 min, thats 8-10 times you have to have your pet attack. Then add in a few "sic" in there on top of that. Plus any other ablities you have to do besides that. And what is the timer on sic? Your pet gets to TP once every 4 mobs or so? And might do a completely useless tp move and not an offensive one? Like I said ill take a pimp bst over a gimp war, but IMO bst takes too much time "doing things" and not enough raw damage. Forgive me if any of what I just posted is completely wrong as far as timers/abilities go, I am NOT a bst, but I have seen them in action, and just giving my perception.

[Midnightjade]

I've used my BST in a few low-numbers events recently, it's hella fun in MMM where some of the mobs are charmable. Primal Rend is also a very fun ws, nice break from Rampage and it uses a completely different ws setup. However, having said that, I've been BST75 for a couple of years and I find I have to put a ton of work into the job to get decent results out of it in a party setup.

Since I have a BZ and a bunch of Haste/Askar/HP gear, I'm currently leveling DRK for zerg and assorted other 'blow stuff up' purposes. BST in a zerg would be like a fish on a bike - I wouldn't even go there.

Hope this helps.

[oldoldman]

Make him at least finish it so it's a relic to relic trade. He could just sell the currency before the trade and you'd be fucked.

[Shassira]

I'll throw this out since someone mentioned using Snarl + Pet.

It's really really hard for a BST pet to shed CE 'hate' because its HP is so high. It seems the follow the same general formula for hate shedding where the amount shed is inversely proportional to damage taken. Because pets have so much more HP than players, the amount of hate shed is often 8-10 times less than a real player.

Never done a test on Snarl though.

I know this is off the topic, but I missed this part of the hate study (last I read about it was when the dmg part hadn't been done). This makes so much sense now to me. We use a BST (myself) to kite LAC (you can read about it in the SS thread if you are interested) and I had noticed that after every charm phase even our top tier MNK took longer than I would've normaly expected for her to take hate back. Sometimes Carrie would just simply die or be about to die when she was done (this is no surprisse, she dies relatively fast when she's being spamed steady with AoE and crits from LAC, but it took them much longer than I would've expected normaly).

Considering Carrie has what... almost 3000 HP, it makes sense now. Thanks ^^

[Corruption]

1. How to you feel about your relic in general?

2. DPS pimp?

3. Can you hold your own in meripo?

4. Gear: TP, Solo, Zerg (lulz), and ws. (Post if have ss's handy)

I don't think I will get many/ if any responses because so few that have read bg.

The reason of my random questions. UAE guy I know has the frag/ast/currency/Orge Killer and wants to do a trade for my Kikoku Ninja. And I need a change in this game bad after this mythic shit. So comments/answers will be greatly appreciated .. GREATLY..

PS. My BST is lv 1.

Well I can't say much other than the info posted on ffxi wiki. and who I found with it on my server Ifrit(not sure if she still plays but check it out)

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8...lgutlerjy1.png

Aside from that check out this link.

[Saivan]

I'm quite sure he knows how to check otherwiki :3

[Corruption]

I'm quite sure he knows how to check otherwiki :3

Yeah I mean I only put it there since I was to lazy to copy everything stat for stat lol. I put up the pic so maybe he can contact the player but to be honest now with the ability to jump servers and not keep the same name always I'm not sure if that kitty is still in Ifrit

[Okan]

I clearly said that you add in the pets damage onto the bsts, but as far as abilities...Difference? War uses zerk/wc/agressor every 5 min. Assuming you are killing average 8-10 mobs per 5 min, thats 8-10 times you have to have your pet attack. Then add in a few "sic" in there on top of that. Plus any other ablities you have to do besides that. And what is the timer on sic? Your pet gets to TP once every 4 mobs or so? And might do a completely useless tp move and not an offensive one? Like I said ill take a pimp bst over a gimp war, but IMO bst takes too much time "doing things" and not enough raw damage. Forgive me if any of what I just posted is completely wrong as far as timers/abilities go, I am NOT a bst, but I have seen them in action, and just giving my perception.

Sorry, the way you phrased that sounded like you were overlooking the pets damage.

And I know what I said was a bit misleading too. I don't expect a BSTs overall damage to be the best in the game. I'm just simply stating that a lot of people do one of two things. Look at the parse of the BST only, though it's hard to add in pet damage unless they use a constant jug pet that can be easily identified and no one else is nearby to mess with that parsing, or look at the WS damage only. I understand there are a few things really hurting BST in terms of overall damage over time. Lack of double attack, no real major burst WS minus Rampage and that's not even that burst worthy, no buffs for the job.

I think it's just that the true lovers of this class are tired of being told "Change to BLM and then you can come to Dynamis/Limbus/XXXhere" and just would like a little bit of fun on the job they really like. Of course they'll understand that some occasions they are absolutely needed on that other job, but 99.9% of the time, there will be some prejudice against that class that will not allow them to do anything but farm beastmen seals on it.

We also understand that FFXI is not a solo game. Especially all of us here that have or still camp HNMs. Just because the job does great soloing doesn't mean that it's the only thing we should ever do with it.

Edit: And I apologize. I didn't mean to have this turn in to a BST vs WAR or Why everyone sucks because they don't like BST in their party type threads. On topic: I agree with what everyone said - Except for the horn and shield, any relic that you are upgrading shouldn't be for damage, but for personal fun. Though if you get the shield or horn, be prepared to be that job at almost every event.