/NIN to /SAM to /WAR for RNG

[cdgreg]

Antithesis G

Change your sig damn it, I waste a good 5 mins after each one of your posts just staring at it.

I caught myself doing the same after I read his reply...

[Raylinn]

Setup for 5-hit without using a silly gun - 5-hit Xbow

Biggest downside is being required to keep Skadi pants on for WS. And that 100% slug shot is generally thought of as crazy inaccurate.

[edit]was thinking /sam was 20 store tp for whatever reason, so this setup doesn't work out at all.[/edit]

[Kirschy]

I only play my RNG in endgame situations. (Odin, Dark Ixion, Cerb, Khim.)

I'm full-time /war for anything I'd use Ranger in. Berserk is just that amazing. Like Terra posted earlier, any rng/war spamming Sidewinder can hit the hate cap easy and steal hate. Watch your enmity and keep a high dps output. (I don't even bother /w Barrage or WSing. Just shooting arrows at 200+ a hit is enough to require to me hold me.)

I just don't see the point of using /SAM on long fights. The 5 STR from Hasso(fulltime) doesn't come close to the attack boost from berserk(3min/5min). The only reason I could see using /SAM is to reach an x-Hit build while having med. This seems counterproductive in long fights where enmity is an issue. I already have to hold back to keep myself under the hate of my tank. Why would I want to WS more and have Ixion turn toward me(mitigating damage done until it's ass is facing DD again), or have Khim/Cerb move and screw up positioning?

If you're a Relic RNG I can easily see the purpose using /SAM as it's been mentioned many times the reduced fixed enmity on the WS. But for a non-relic RNG, using /war and maximizing DPS while keeping your hate under control seems the best use of a Ranger.

I do realise that RNG can be used in many more situations, and a variety of subs can be useful depending on the strategy used. My thoughts on /war > /sam are for longer fights against HNMs, and assumed that you get buffs(BRD and/or COR).

[Silpha]

I just don't see the point of using /SAM on long fights. The 5 STR from Hasso(fulltime) doesn't come close to the attack boost from berserk(3min/5min). The only reason I could see using /SAM is to reach an x-Hit build while having med. This seems counterproductive in long fights where enmity is an issue. I already have to hold back to keep myself under the hate of my tank. Why would I want to WS more and have Ixion turn toward me(mitigating damage done until it's ass is facing DD again), or have Khim/Cerb move and screw up positioning?

That's definetly my point of view about /sam.

You DO great damages, nothing to be shy even against /war. Thing is it's more spike than dot, and i find it harder to control my hate even if it's kinda on par with /war.
(i do play ranger very few and my main is monk, so i'm more used to dot hate control. prolly would play better as /sam if i had to ranger for more things and get more experience of the job. So /war way easier for me to kick ass while not dying too often)

[Kohan]

Setup for 5-hit without using a silly gun - 5-hit Xbow

Biggest downside is being required to keep Skadi pants on for WS. And that 100% slug shot is generally thought of as crazy inaccurate.

Thank you for this. Since my significant other doesn't have Skadi pants, they'll stick to /WAR for now. Any other suggestions?

[Mojo]

Crossbow is fantastic for many situations, but I would recommend gun (or bow) anytime where you have trouble getting bolts to proc (it happens often on endgame stuff.) Although I do appreciate the link, that Store TP calculator does not help me. I don't know how the delays of both the ranged weapon and ammo factor into how the overall TP gain is calculated.

I just don't see the point of using /SAM on long fights. The 5 STR from Hasso(fulltime) doesn't come close to the attack boost from berserk(3min/5min). The only reason I could see using /SAM is to reach an x-Hit build while having med. This seems counterproductive in long fights where enmity is an issue. I already have to hold back to keep myself under the hate of my tank. Why would I want to WS more and have Ixion turn toward me(mitigating damage done until it's ass is facing DD again), or have Khim/Cerb move and screw up positioning?

If you're citing Hasso as a benefit to using /SAM, you clearly do not understand why SAM subjob is good.

Most people do not have access to Skadi Chausses and Rajas Ring, both are required for a 6 hit build on RNG/WAR. I'd say for nearly 90% of the serious RNG out there, you're looking at a 7 hit Ebow build (DMG 105) with Berserk versus a 5 hit Hellfire +1 build (DMG 123) with Meditate. Meditate isn't nearly as good as Berserk, but the 5 hit versus 7 hit is very significant, especially when you consider how the delay of ranged weapons factors into how quickly you can actually fire shots off. You also get a nice base damage boost.

[Jakson]

On that Store TP calculator, it asks for Weapon delay. Is TP calculated the same for ranged weapons, as in, you'd take bow/gun delay and add it to ammo delay and thats the number you'd enter into the calculator?

Antithesis G

Change your sig damn it, I waste a good 5 mins after each one of your posts just staring at it.

And after those five minutes, since I don't know where it came from, I half expect the person to fully turn around and get greeted with a man's face.

[Antithesis]

Antithesis G

Change your sig damn it, I waste a good 5 mins after each one of your posts just staring at it.

I can put another Asian girl if you wish instead :D

Ok I lied I just kept it and changed it around a bit.

[Devolver]

I only play my RNG in endgame situations. (Odin, Dark Ixion, Cerb, Khim.)

I'm full-time /war for anything I'd use Ranger in. Berserk is just that amazing. Like Terra posted earlier, any rng/war spamming Sidewinder can hit the hate cap easy and steal hate. Watch your enmity and keep a high dps output. (I don't even bother /w Barrage or WSing. Just shooting arrows at 200+ a hit is enough to require to me hold me.)

I just don't see the point of using /SAM on long fights. The 5 STR from Hasso(fulltime) doesn't come close to the attack boost from berserk(3min/5min). The only reason I could see using /SAM is to reach an x-Hit build while having med. This seems counterproductive in long fights where enmity is an issue. I already have to hold back to keep myself under the hate of my tank. Why would I want to WS more and have Ixion turn toward me(mitigating damage done until it's ass is facing DD again), or have Khim/Cerb move and screw up positioning?

Hate quoting so much, but this is all 100% fact. I'm a huge fan of Rng/War and i use it for basically anything i come across, unless something situational comes up. Berserk is just amazing, and you can see the benefits from it immediately. Also helps get those Sidewinder numbers you're whole pt 's

[heartslaught]

Basically, this is how /nin, /sam, and /war work.

/nin == shit, never sub it. I bitch at rangers in my shell who sub this until they change to either of the other two.

/sam == anti-hate. I fyou are a fully merited ranger, and do not have a low enmity build, this might be a good idea. Honestly, I only use it when I know I'm uneasy about hate, even with the -enm build, and will sub sam, but this is rare.

/war == 95% of the time you will sub this over /sam. Berserk and the attack bonus are just that good. Hell if you don't think you can spam slug/winder, just DoT the mob with normal shots.

These are my two cents at least.

[zard1977]

Isn't it kind of strange having to hold back (stopping ws) when you SJ war when the main reason for you to SJ war is to boost damage?

SJ war offers 0 damage mitigation and makes you just a big mp sink if you pull hate (and survived).

[Devolver]

Isn't it kind of strange having to hold back (stopping ws) when you SJ war when the main reason for you to SJ war is to boost damage?

The DoT from /war will trump /sam, and I'm almost positive you will parse higher in endgame events with /war.

[VZX]

/NIN most of the time. Really.. I don't need /SAM or /WAR to be able to pull hate in non-zerg fight.

Haven't gotten any situation where I can safely do rapid WSing with /SAM or high dmg/shot with /WAR.

[Vakso]

Basically, this is how /nin, /sam, and /war work.

/nin == shit, never sub it. I bitch at rangers in my shell who sub this until they change to either of the other two.

I don't really bitch at others about subbing it, but I never sub NIN either. Over all its just a waste really.

[Korremar]

Since there's so many RNGs in here, and talks of 5/6/whatever-hit builds, I'm sure you can answer a question that I haven't known the answer to for a long time:

How is ranged delay calculated, in terms of TP return? Is it just the weapon? Do you add the weapon and ammo together? Is it something completely different from melee calculations?

[Hellfury]

Since there's so many RNGs in here, and talks of 5/6/whatever-hit builds, I'm sure you can answer a question that I haven't known the answer to for a long time:

How is ranged delay calculated, in terms of TP return? Is it just the weapon? Do you add the weapon and ammo together? Is it something completely different from melee calculations?

ranged weapon + ammo
(dear god so many rangers who quit will return to beat the crap out of me if I got that one wrong)

[Mojo]

I paraphrased some of this from wiki, it's fairly accurate.

Ranged delay is about twice as fast as melee delay. 110 delay = 1 second
Ranged weapon delay is the only variable affecting the total delay. Ammo delay doesn't affect the total delay. Ammo delay affects the time until it is possible to shoot again.
Ranged attack delay is divided into 3 phases.

• Pulling out ranged weapon, aiming, and shooting - This time span is calculated by Weapon Delay / 110. A successful Rapid Shot activation reduces the aiming time (the time between pulling back the string and actual firing of the shot) to 0.
• After shooting → putting back ranged weapon - This delay usually takes 1.7 second to 1.8 second. However, occasionally, it can take fluctuate from 1.6 second to 1.9 second
• "Free" phase - At this time span, melee timer is un-paused. The minimum time this delay can have is 1.1 second

So the delay between shot of ranged weapon is the following.

Delay = (Weapon Delay/110)s + 1.7s~1.8s + 1.1s

When rapid shot procs, the first part of the equation (pulling out weapon, aiming, shooting) that is determined by the weapon delay is reduced to zero while the after shooting/free phases are unaffected. Snapshot/Velocity Shot reduce the first part of the equation as well, I'm not sure if they affect the second/third. Hopefully this makes it clear as to why there is such an advantage to the 5 shot builds.

[Fridell]

To say that /NIN is shit and never to use it to fuck yourself and others over at times...why not use it when you actually need it and it actually HELPS instead of just saying its shit?
I wouldnt bitch at RNGs subbing NIN when they do it where it can be acceptable.

[ninjafox]

Where is /nin "needed"?

[Fridell]

When you get a random idiot RNg who just toss his shit out not caring about if it screw it up for others, I've seen this way more then I would like.