Israeli Air Strike

[Elvis]

Like WHAT? She got imprisoned for supporting terrorism against state. I am enjoying this actually, keep re-posting same articles from different websites and continue your pathetic labeling.

Your words don't mean anything.

Pathetic labeling? What label am I attaching to her story?

Dispute the facts.

Was her right to freedom of expression violated? Yes.

Locked up for 2 years for "spreading terrorist propaganda."

All Turks are created equal but some are more equal than others.

In 700 years, two people? You are officially batshit insane.

[Elvis]

List of prosecuted Turkish writers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is not even fun anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301

Article 301 is a controversial article of the Turkish penal code making it illegal to insult Turkey, the Turkish ethnicity, or Turkish government institutions.

And you wanted OFFICIAL documents. Fucking joke.

[Kuya]

The Turkish state, on the other hand, has adamantly rejected even indirect negotiations with the Kurdish movement for a peaceful political settlement, despite insistent calls for peace on the part of the PKK. It has, on the contrary, even gone so far as to deny the existence of the Kurdish question and resorted to militaristic methods in its attempt to crush what it has preferred to call "separatist terrorism." The first half of the 1990s, in particular, witnessed the adoption of a strategy based on counterinsurgency methods of the kind notoriously used by Central American governments. Between 1989 and 1996, more than 1,500 civilians affiliated with the Kurdish opposition perished in street assassinations; the killers have never been identified. Reports that were later published by a parliamentary committee, and another committee appointed by the Prime Minister, attributed a majority of these to the joint activities of counterinsurgency agents and fascist militants under their direction. Another eight hundred civilians, mostly Kurds, were extrajudicially executed by the security forces between 1991 and 1995. Close to five hundred people were classified as missing between 1991 and 1997. Between 1983 and 1994, 230 people died under police torture, and eighty-three cases of children being tortured were documented in 1996 alone. (All figures are from reports published by the Istanbul chapter of the Human Rights Association of Turkey.)

Yep, it does seem like Mayareira is just zealously defending the government, for whatever reason.

[Mayareira]

Wasn't there also an Armenian genocide during WWI, in what used to be the Ottoman Empire that is now Turkey?

Ottoman Empire had to take military actions against revolts everywhere, which was something every nation would do. Defending your state is not a genocide. Historians have been debating on this for years.

peaceful political settlement

...is basically "give us your land". Such an article posted by a Turkish based source shouldn't be considered a bad thing.
Official story is that over 30,000 people(mostly civilians) were killed by that group.

[Elvis]

Wow. Ok, discussion over! Time for pictures of cats!

http://www.catfacts.org/cat-mouth-full.jpg

[Kuya]

Several large scale Kurdish revolts in 1925, 1930 and 1938 were suppressed by the Turkish government and more than one million Kurds were forcibly relocated between 1925 and 1938. The use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned and the Kurdish-inhabited areas remained under martial law until 1946[43]. The Ararat revolt which reached its apex in 1930, was only suppressed after a massive military campaign including destruction of many villages and their populations. In quelling the revolt, Turkey was assisted by the close cooperation of its neighboring states such as Soviet Union and Iran. The revolt was organized by a Kurdish party called Khoybun which signed a treaty with the Dashnaksutyun (Armenian Revolutionary Federation) in 1927[44]. By 1970s, Kurdish leftist orgnizations such as Kurdistan Socialist Part-Turkey(KSP-T) emerged in Turkey which were against violence and supported civil activities and participation in elections. In 1977, Mehdi Zana a supporter of KSP-T won the mayoralty of Diyarbakir in the local elections. At about the same time, generational fissures gave birth to two new oganizations: National Liberation of Kurdistan and Kurdistan Workers Party[45].

The Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan (PKK), also known as KADEK and Kongra-Gel, is considered by the US, the EU, and NATO to be a terrorist organization.[46] It is an ethnic secessionist organization using violence for the purpose of achieving its goal of creating an independent Kurdish state in parts of southeastern Turkey, northeastern Iraq, northeastern Syria and northwestern Iran.

Between 1984 and 1999, the PKK and the Turkish military engaged in open war, and much of the countryside in the southeast was depopulated, as Kurdish civilians moved to local defensible centers such as Diyarbakır, Van, and Şırnak, as well as to the cities of western Turkey and even to western Europe. The causes of the depopulation included PKK atrocities against Kurdish clans they could not control, the poverty of the southeast, and the Turkish state's military operations.[47]
Officially protected death squads are accused of disappearance of 3,200 Kurds in 1993 and 1994 in the so called mystery killings. Kurdish politicians, human-rights activists, journalists, teachers and other memebers of intelligentsia were among the victims. Virtually none of the perpetrators were investigated nor punished. Turkish government also encouraged an Islamic extremist group called Hezbollah to assassinate suspected PKK members and often ordinary Kurds[48]. Azimet Köylüoğlu, the state minister of human rights, revealed the extent of security forces' excesses in autumn 1994[49]:

Even Wikipedia has this information.

[Mayareira]

Still couldn't find a single worthwhile article? Good, now backpedal and derail.

400,000ish, 400,000ish.

[Elvis]

Ha, you're just a government shill. I'll trust a mainstream human rights group over a terror state that literally forbids any form of dissent.

I haven't backpedaled once.

[Mayareira]

Ha, you're just a government shill. I'll trust a mainstream human rights group over a terror state that literally forbids any form of dissent.

I haven't backpedaled once.

Government taking actions for the sake of state's defense is against human rights?
You know what an official document is?

Turkey and EU: PKK remains on Euro terror list, 4 April 2008 Friday 13:43

Said group is recognized as a terrorist organization by the European Union and here, you sympathize with them and condemn military actions against those.

More googole please. Oh yeah, human rights means accepting everything terrorist organizations demand, after all.

More:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...guiLanguage=en

from European Union wbsite, an official declaration. Go go, post more geocities one-paragraph articles.

[Faris]

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates: Dubai's ruler has ordered the cancellation of all New Year's celebrations in the freewheeling Gulf city state because of the violence in Gaza.

Emirates news agency WAM said Tuesday that Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum called off "all forms of celebrations" but did not elaborate.

The order calls for Dubai instead to mark the new year "with a somber tone as a token of solidarity" with the Palestinian people and with the Gaza Strip in particular.

It was not immediately clear when the ban would take effect or whether it would apply to the scores of bars and restaurants planning pricey New Year's Eve events.

Source

I'm happy that we're sad about our brothers & sisters in Palestine.

[Elvis]

Government taking actions for the sake of state's defense is against human rights?
You know what an official document is?

Turkey and EU: PKK remains on Euro terror list, 4 April 2008 Friday 13:43

Said group is recognized as a terrorist organization by the European Union and here, you sympathize with them and condemn military actions against those.

More googole please. Oh yeah, human rights means accepting everything terrorist organizations demand, after all.

I don't sympathize with the PKK. These terror lists are an entirely different issue.

The US designated the African National Congress and Nelson Mandela (Anti-Apartheid activist, Nobel Peace Prize winner and first black president of South Africa) terrorists during the 80s.

These lists are political. That's not to say they are completely false but the example I gave is enough proof to show that one should maintain a healthy criticism of who draws up these lists and who is drawn on them.

As to your source: considering Article 301, the ONLY source that YOU will accept is from the State or that agrees with your view.

To disregard mainstream international human rights groups that document abuses around the world is just plain ignorant.

from European Union website, an official declaration. Go go, post more geocities one-paragraph articles.

Dispute the facts in the geocites article. It was in reference to Leyla's imprisonment, right? Was she NOT imprisoned? Your denial is pathological.

[Kuya]

You don't seem to understand. The Turkish government has a wildly known history of oppressing the Kurdish population, and defending oneself against terrorist groups such as the PKK, does not allow it to force thousands of Kurdish people who have nothing to do with the PKK out their homes, under the guise of defending itself from the PKK. This is exactly like Israel saying that, in order to defend itself against Hamas, it has the right to collectively destroy even those who have nothing to do with Hamas.

Turkey's treatment of its citizens of Kurdish origin has been a frequent subject of international criticism.[1] The period immediately following 1980 Turkish coup d'état was particularly oppressive (not just in respect to ethnic Kurds), when use of Kurdish language in public was banned. The ban was lifted in 1991 during the presidency of Turgut Özal, who was of partial Kurdish descent.[26]
Kurds have largely resisted assimilation policies of the government. The main strategy for assimilation has been suppression of the Kurdish language. Nevertheless, Kurdish is widely spoken.[2][27]

Human Rights Watch has documented many instances where the Turkish military forcibly evacuated villages, destroying houses and equipment to prevent the return of the inhabitants. An estimated 3,000 Kurdish villages in Turkey were virtually wiped from the map, representing the displacement of more than 378,000 people.[29]

[Elvis]

This is the source I listed in reference to Leyla's imprisonment:

Bianet :: Former Kurdish Parliamentarian Sentenced To Ten Years In Prison For Her Speeches

This moron keeps denigrating my sources and refers to the above as a 'geocite'.

I listed Human Rights Watch, BBC, the above, and the EarthTimes.

In the last two, the facts are quite simple. They were reiterating what Turkish television was reporting.

I don't know what your dispute is with my sources, let alone the CONTENT.

You're about as convincing as clown shoes.

[Mayareira]

Dispute the facts in the geocites article. It was in reference to Leyla's imprisonment, right? Was she NOT imprisoned? Your denial is pathological.

She was imprisoned for unacceptable actions against the state. Every state/country out there has similar stories.

Posting similar "critisizm" links from here and there doesn't justify your argument. I am not saying states and governments are perfect. I just expect people to try to approach issues objectively.

[Elvis]

She was imprisoned for unacceptable actions against the state. Every state/country out there has similar stories.

Posting similar "critisizm" links from here and there doesn't justify your argument. I am not saying states and governments are perfect. I just expect people to try to approach issues objectively.

Actions as in speaking out.

What the hell do you mean "criticism"? Is it "criticism" to state a FACT?

Was she not imprisoned for dissidence? Yes or no?

Is there not a law, Article 301, that forbids dissidence?

Are people not brutally censored in Turkey?

Was there not a mass ethnic cleansing? That's not a CRITICISM.

You are in denial.

[Mayareira]

There was NO mass ethnic cleansing. You need a LOT more than a single website article to convince people about a "mass ethnic cleansing" involving 400,000 people. You know, a source similar to what I have posted.

Again, do you have a fucking idea on the numbers you post here?

[Elvis]

You mean a source that agrees with you. A source that's "official" in a country that restricts free speech and kicks out Human Rights workers? That even carries out targeted killings of Human Rights workers.

[Mayareira]

You mean a source that agrees with you. A source that's "official" in a country that restricts free speech and kicks out Human Rights workers? That even carries out targeted killings of Human Rights workers.

Saaaaame website again. A source that's official is;

Combating terrorism - Restrictive measures against certain persons and entities

On 14 March the Council updated the list of persons, groups and entities to which the restrictive anti-terrorism measures introduced in December 2001 apply. The list was last updated on 17 May 2004 (6580/1/05 and 6581/1/05).

...a press statement like this from an organization like European Union. You know, just like the one I've posted. It does indeed agree with me. Criticism from the same organization posted over and over again doesn't help with your argument.

[Elvis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Turkey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Turkey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...urkish_writers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301

Did you not read what I said earlier? Why should we 100% believe these terror lists?

In any case, I never supported the PKK.

I think this is a personal issue for you, hence your denial of the facts about your own Constitution. So I'll leave it there.

[Mayareira]

Did you not read what I said earlier? Why should we 100% believe these terror lists?

A active group officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the world, why shouldn't we believe that list? Am I the one in denial here? Ok then.
I do respect opinions and again, states and governments are far from perfect . I am completely against cencorship, but here is an image from the link you've posted.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nkings_Map.PNG

Your source doesn't list The Republic of Turkey the way you try to present it here. Am I still the one in denial here? I don't disagree with the problems w/ article 301 (Its also heavily critisized in Turkey) but you are making a big deal out of small, individual stories here.