Israeli Air Strike

[Kuya]

How does a mass of land fire rockets? Or did you mean the Mexican army?

[oldoldman]

War is not humane. When one side of the fight hides behind their citizens then citizens will die. The palestinian civilians need to stop protecting Hamas and allowing them to operate out of their towns. The fact the Hamas has been able to say they have moral high ground on this one is just sad.

[Kuya]

What do you call a person who, in order to kill his targets also kills the hostages?

Also, the little war speech is cute, because somehow it assumes that war is the only option, or that war gives you the right to kill everything. I guess some people think that war gives them carte blanche to kill whatever they want, but i don't know how popular that opinion is.

[Elvis]

War is not humane. When one side of the fight hides behind their citizens then citizens will die. The palestinian civilians need to stop protecting Hamas and allowing them to operate out of their towns. The fact the Hamas has been able to say they have moral high ground on this one is just sad.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

Anyways, back to wasting my time writing about a conflict that will never end until all the Palestinians are either A) killed or B) ethnically cleansed, upon which decades to 100s of years from now academics and scholars will reflect with melancholy and moral outrage (see: 12 million Native Americans killed/ethnically cleansed by the Euro-American colonization of North America).

[0ni0n]

War is not humane. When one side of the fight hides behind their citizens then citizens will die. The palestinian civilians need to stop protecting Hamas and allowing them to operate out of their towns. The fact the Hamas has been able to say they have moral high ground on this one is just sad.

End Israeli occupation of Palestinian land, problem solved. It's funny to see your Israeli sympathizers defend Israel despite it is killing civilians indiscriminately.

[Muffins]

War is not humane. When one side of the fight hides behind their citizens then citizens will die. The palestinian civilians need to stop protecting Hamas and allowing them to operate out of their towns. The fact the Hamas has been able to say they have moral high ground on this one is just sad.

How can you possibly hide anywhere in Gaza? The place is a god damn prison. You deny the people held in there any kind of mobility, of course you'll see militants among the civilian populace. But don't forget the tunnel system that Hamas militants and smugglers have access to, what's to prevent the militants - the supposed targets of the IDF - from using it as shelter and leaving the civilian populace exposed? Does the IDF take this into consideration when they blow up schools and mosques... I'm sorry, "munitions storage" buildings?

Sure, civilian deaths are to be expected in any wartime situation, but to deliberately, systematically, and indiscriminately target schools, mosques, homes, and shelters and attacking the civilian population crosses a very clear line in what is legal and moral. The fact that two U.N. schools were shelled by Israeli tanks should make this clear. Before you suggest that civilians had ample warning to leave, remember this: Gazans simply cannot leave, they have no place to run or hide because the Israeli blockade prevents any escape from the carnage.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

On a sidenote. I wrote a tl;dr post and then went out to lunch w/ gf and now it's blank! fuck you auto-logout thing

Anyways, back to wasting my time writing about a conflict that will never end until all the Palestinians are either A) killed or B) ethnically cleansed, upon which decades to 100s of years from now academics and scholars will reflect with melancholy and moral outrage (see: 12 million Native Americans killed/ethnically cleansed by the Euro-American colonization of North America).

Don't forget C) The Antichrist and his army are wiped out in the Second Coming.

[Brill Weave]

The same can be said for the Palestinians 0ni0n. Or are the rockets they fire into Israeli territory bottle rockets? And Kuya you know what I meant you douche I am by no means an expert on the dynamics of the entire conflict here, but let's face it. This shit has been going on long since before we were born, and it will continue long after we're gone.

And Muffins the munitions storage didn't come from me if that's why you quoted it. It was apparently what the Israeli's are claiming.

[Elvis]

I'm almost done with my post but I think it's kind of silly to apply this 50/50 responsibility to both sides.

This conflict is not symmetrical. Logistically speaking, it's the 4th most powerful military versus a militia with crude weaponry. AFAIK, Hamas has no air-force or naval force.

Again, logistically speaking, the PR campaign in the US is heavily biased towards Israel and I've already posted sources quoting Israeli officials admitting as much.

We need to think critically about the social aspects of the conflict. How is it presented to us here in the US? Is it fair and balanced? Pun intended.

I think people are conflating this notion of applying 50-50 blame with the nature of the conflict itself.

The conflict is not 50-50. It is not even. There are objective variables that illustrate this point, hence why - for example - I have taken a seemingly pro-Palestinian stance. I'm not Arab or Muslim. I've just come to my own conclusions based on my own independent research.

Just as anyone else here has. However, I think there is a threshold for subjectivity. For example, we can make subjective moral judgments on aspects of this conflict (as with any conflict) but agree universally on a political reality.

More in a sec.

[Kuya]

Certain people always try to apply 50-50 blame to everything; it's essentially the middle ground fallacy. Not to mention that some people would rather it be everyone's fault than the side they obviously lean towards. You'll also notice that if you levy a claim, instead of arguing against it, they will just toss out random information that equates to "Well look, they're bad too!", because they couldn't refute what you said, and they rather not own up to it.

Basically, people who suck at arguing.

[Elvis]

That happened to me a page or two ago.

We all have a bias to an extent. We have to present our opinion as best as we can and see where it leads us.

[Brill Weave]

But is it really that different from what the United States is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Newp. Of course it's not fair or balanced, this is America after all. We aren't allowed to think for ourselves here anymore. All of our decisions are made by people who obviously are smarter than ourselves. I mean shit, I just discovered I had opposable thumbs. Eleven years after I graduated, no child left behind finally kicked in! That is one of my pet peeves. Almost every station, be it radio or television, always has to lean to a certain side politically. I would kill for a perfectly neutral option.

Seriously though, logistically speaking in terms of the U.S. vs. Al Queda/Taliban/Insurgents it's even worse(the disparity between technology, tactics, etc.) Yet there's not a single person here in the United States that doesn't see members of Al Queda/Taliban/Foreign Insurgents as a very real threat to the U.S. troops and aliied troops overseas.

[Kuya]

But is it really that different from what the United States is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Newp. Of course it's not fair or balanced, this is America after all. We aren't allowed to think for ourselves here anymore. All of our decisions are made by people who obviously are smarter than ourselves. I mean shit, I just discovered I had opposable thumbs. Eleven years after I graduated, no child left behind finally kicked in! That is one of my pet peeves. Almost every station, be it radio or television, always has to lean to a certain side politically. I would kill for a perfectly neutral option.

Seriously though, logistically speaking in terms of the U.S. vs. Al Queda/Taliban/Insurgents it's even worse(the disparity between technology, tactics, etc.) Yet there's not a single person here in the United States that doesn't see members of Al Queda/Taliban/Foreign Insurgents as a very real threat to the U.S. troops and aliied troops overseas.

We're talking about Palestinian civilians.

[Zilong]

We don't go around killing civilian on purpose on iraq and afghanistan

At least not at the scale the Israeli are doing.

[Brill Weave]

I understand that Kuya. I'm mentioning how the United States and allied forces are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan in their neverending hunt for extremists. How many civilians have they killed with drone missile strikes. Search and seizures of suspected militants. But we get a slap on the wrist from governments who are against what we are doing. Which is essentially what Israel is doing right now. They're just copying off of big brother.

I should have made my point a bit more clear I reread the post and can see the confusion, my bad.

[Kuya]

I'm mentioning how the United States and allied forces are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan in their neverending hunt for extremists.

Not even close. Before we go any further, do you have any idea what you're talking about?

[Brill Weave]

I could say the same thing to you at this point Kuya.

[Muffins]

And Muffins the munitions storage didn't come from me if that's why you quoted it. It was apparently what the Israeli's are claiming.

Nah, wasn't directed at you. I was mocking the IDF's position.

[Kiro]

We don't go around killing civilian on purpose on iraq and afghanistan

At least not at the scale the Israeli are doing.

El Oh El.

[Kuya]

I could say the same thing to you at this point Kuya.

Okay, so what you're telling me is that the US attacks its targets even while the targets are among a large civilian population?

[oldoldman]

So far from what I've seen the Israelis are targeting places that house munitions and the staging points for the Rocket attacks. Sadly there are civilians around. But it begs the question at what point does someone stop being a civilian? If they have active knowledge that rockets are being fired close to them targeted at other innocent civilians isn't there a fine line there? If in fact Israel is deliberately attacking civilians with no ties to Hamas then I would agree that Israel needs to stop that.