Israeli Air Strike

[Elvis]

I said Turkey was a terror state (it is). What's my evidence? The treatment of it's Kurdish population.

I'm not siding with the PKK. I'm saying the Turkish government has engaged in terror against the Kurdish civilian population. Hence the MASS ETHNIC CLEANSING.

[Mayareira]

I said Turkey was a terror state (it is). What's my evidence? The treatment of it's Kurdish population.

I'm not siding with the PKK. I'm saying the Turkish government has engaged in terror against the Kurdish civilian population. Hence the MASS ETHNIC CLEANSING.

A Mass Ethnic Cleansing without ANY evidence or an official document in 20-21st century.
Yes, you said it. Only you, Elvis of BG did. Which was my point from the beginning.

[kuronosan]

Well then you might as well say that the US is a terrorist state. We engage in terrorist activities against Blacks, Jews, and most non-WASP people in the states. Let's not even get into the terrorist actions against the oppressive British as well as the extreme terrorism towards the Native-American, Asian, and Irish immigrants during the 1800s.

I'd wager that according to your definition of terrorism, there are more terrorists in America than the rest of the world combined.

[Elvis]

A Mass Ethnic Cleansing without ANY evidence or an official document in 20-21st century.
Yes, you said it. Only you, Elvis of BG did. Which was my point from the beginning.

What constitutes an official document? You mean from the Turkish government itself?

In the States documents don't get declassified right away. You think the Turkish government with it's shitty human rights record, shitty civil rights record, etc. is going to admit to it's crimes let alone release any document?

Human Rights Watch. Amnesty International, et all. ARE mainstream.

I'm sorry that a representative from the Turkish government has to authenticate these investigations for you to take them seriously.

This again has little to do with content and more to do with general critical thinking. These are all mainstream groups that document abuses in all countries.

They are referenced constantly by writers, academics, even politicians. But you, Mayareira of BG seem to only believe in the "official" Turkish government account of their shitty record.

@Geocites articles?
All these assertions I've made can be found in the mainstream. Articles on Sugden or Leyla won't be hard to find.

I just picked the first one I found because it's a fucking given. You are in serious denial.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey rapped over Kurds' treatment

There's another mainstream source.

[Elvis]

Well then you might as well say that the US is a terrorist state. We engage in terrorist activities against Blacks, Jews, and most non-WASP people in the states. Let's not even get into the terrorist actions against the oppressive British as well as the extreme terrorism towards the Native-American, Asian, and Irish immigrants during the 1800s.

I'd wager that according to your definition of terrorism, there are more terrorists in America than the rest of the world combined.

Not true. Although during the 60s, the COINTELPRO report documented a form of terrorism the FBI was carrying out against dissidents.

As to those analogies. I think you need to read up on what Turkey did to the Kurds to understand. For example, to compare what Turkey does to it's dissidents to the US is ridiculous. I don't consider the US a terror state to it's population.

[Mayareira]

Turkey has been criticised over its human rights record towards its Kurdish population, just days ahead of general elections.

The non-governmental organisation Human Rights Watch (HRW) says the government has failed to assist hundreds of thousands of displaced people from returning to their homes in the south-east.

What the fuck is the point of this BBC article? Jesus, you need a dictionary before anything else. Every single state/nation old enough out there HAD to take actions against revolts. Do you really think you can declare your own independence and form a country named "Republic of Elvis" in the middle of Paris, France?

[Elvis]

What the fuck is the point of this BBC article? Jesus, you need a dictionary before anything else. Every single state/nation old enough out there HAD to take actions against revolts. Do you really think you can declare your own independence and form a country named "Republic of Elvis" in the middle of Paris, France?

I'm not sure what your point is. It's just that you don't consider the actions of a State to be anything other than just.

This is not a question of fact. The Turkish government did ethnically cleanse 400,000ish Kurds.

[Mayareira]

I'm not sure what your point is. It's just that you don't consider the actions of a State to be anything other than just.

This is not a question of fact. The Turkish government did ethnically cleanse 400,000ish Kurds.

A magnitude of 400,000-ish dead people 20 years ago without ANY official document at this time and age. Are you even familiar with fucking numbers? Four hundred thousand.
Again, thanks for proving my point.

[Elvis]

A magnitude of 400,000-ish dead people 20 years ago without ANY official document at this time and age.
Again, thanks for proving my point.

What the fucksicle do you mean OFFICIAL document?

From the government?

Let's get rid of the UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, etc. etc.

Clearly, they are not "official."

Sure, if you want me to find a document from the Turkish government which shows they ethnically cleansed 400,000 Kurds, when they throw people in jail for dissidence and documenting human rights violations, I probably can't.

Are you denying that it didn't happen?

So first, you say it's not a terror state because it's the State. Then you say or imply they didn't ethnically cleanse the Kurds.

Good fucking job. This has nothing to do with my sources. They are all legit. You bashed BBC like it's the fucking Socialist Worker or something. And those human rights groups are what everyone uses when talking about human rights abuse.

[kuronosan]

Not true. Although during the 60s, the COINTELPRO report documented a form of terrorism the FBI was carrying out against dissidents.

As to those analogies. I think you need to read up on what Turkey did to the Kurds to understand. For example, to compare what Turkey does to it's dissidents to the US is ridiculous. I don't consider the US a terror state to it's population.

I'm sorry, how is the mass-extermination or exodus of Kurds any different than the mass-extermination or exodus of Native Americans?

How is the persecution of Kurds any different than the persecution of immigrants?

How is the mistreatment and racial/class bias towards Kurds any different than the mistreatment of minorities?

I would love to read up on what Turkey has done to the Kurds to give myself a broader perspective. First, however, I think you should see the principle of my point. By your definition of a terror state, the US is no better than any other country deemed a "terror state".

[Mayareira]

You bashed BBC like it's the fucking Socialist Worker or something. And those human rights groups are what everyone uses when talking about human rights abuse.

Haha, no no I did not bash your precious BBC source. In fact, I did quote it myself. In fact I'll do that again.

Turkey has been criticised over its human rights record towards its Kurdish population, just days ahead of general elections.

The non-governmental organisation Human Rights Watch (HRW) says the government has failed to assist hundreds of thousands of displaced people from returning to their homes in the south-east.

Again, what was your point? I can find millions of similar articles about every single nation out there.

[Elvis]

I'm sorry, how is the mass-extermination or exodus of Kurds any different than the mass-extermination or exodus of Native Americans?

How is the persecution of Kurds any different than the persecution of immigrants?

How is the mistreatment and racial/class bias towards Kurds any different than the mistreatment of minorities?

I would love to read up on what Turkey has done to the Kurds to give myself a broader perspective. First, however, I think you should see the principle of my point. By your definition of a terror state, the US is no better than any other country deemed a "terror state".

I actually only caught a glimpse of your post.

For some reason I thought you were talking about the 60s. Dunno why.

I absolutely think that these concepts of terror have existed in those times but I don't think we had a word for it? Not sure.

We called Native Americans savages. Reading Teddy Roosevelt's memoirs gives real insight into perceptions of our leaders toward the Native Americans.

But I'm not comparing discrimination (like attitudes toward Blacks during the civil rights era) here. I'm talking about brutal State terrorism against it's population. Ethnic cleansing specifically. In the past the US did this, but again we take into account all the progressive movements since then. It changes the context of the world. Which is why a country like Turkey in this so backwards.

It's only taboo to say our government did this or that because it's our government. I think without a doubt that these concepts can be applied to past crimes.

But people think terror is something others do to us. Not the other way around.

[Mayareira]

I would love to read up on what Turkey has done to the Kurds to give myself a broader perspective

Its about military actions against an ethnic secessionist organization that uses terrorism and the threat of force against both civilian and military targets for the purpose of achieving its political goal. Said group had actions like bombings, kidnapping etc. They are responsible from the death of 30,000 civilians(this, is an official number unlike 400,000 BS up there)Its out everywhere, you can read official articles from almost every governments website out there.

Apperantly, Human Rights mean giving away your nations land to anyone asking for it.

I'm talking about brutal State

Brutal actions againt OWN population? Did you know that said group consists of 20% of total fucking population? You are so fucking clueless. Mass Ethnic cleansing my ass, go buy a dictionary.

Or better, continue posting minor critisizm articles from BBC.

[Elvis]

Haha, no no I did not bash your precious BBC source. In fact, I did quote it myself. In fact I'll do that again.

Again, what was your point? I can find millions of similar articles about every single nation out there.

My point is simple: Turkey has brutalized the Kurdish population and ethnically cleansed 400,000ish people. This has been documented by various - ALL MAINSTREAM - human rights groups.

Now, you want official sources. Official as in what? I think you even flippantly characterized the sources I listed as 'independent'?

What a joke. Again, you are in serious denial.

EDIT:

So all those civilians were criminals? This is just based on whether you worship your State or not.

What's pathetic is that you're worshiping Turkey of all places. I can deal with American nationalism but fucking Turkey?

[Elvis]

Brutal actions againt OWN population? Did you know that said group consists of 20% of total fucking population? You are so fucking clueless. Mass Ethnic cleansing my ass, go buy a dictionary.

Yes against their own population. 20% of the population is a lot moron. 400,000 people being displaced violently isn't a MASS ethnic cleansing?

I have a dictionary. It's not the Turkish State edition. I think that's where we differ.

[Mayareira]

My point is simple: Turkey has brutalized the Kurdish population and ethnically cleansed 400,000ish people. This has been documented by various - ALL MAINSTREAM - human rights groups.

Now, you want official sources. Official as in what? I think you even flippantly characterized the sources I listed as 'independent'?

What a joke. Again, you are in serious denial.

EDIT:

So all those civilians were criminals? This is just based on whether you worship your State or not.

What's pathetic is that you're worshiping Turkey of all places. I can deal with American nationalism but fucking Turkey?

400,000ish 400,000ish 400,000ish a number pulled from a website. Again, do you have a fucking idea on the magnitude of numbers you post here?

Having an "opinion" is perfectly acceptable but try to have some knowledge among with it next time.

I don't know how long you have been stupidly labeling countries out here(terrorist Colombia, this, that) but hopefully this'll be your last.

[Elvis]

400,000ish 400,000ish 400,000ish a number pulled from a website. Again, do you have a fucking idea on the magnitude of numbers you post here?

Having an "opinion" is perfectly acceptable but try to have some knowledge among with it next time.

Yes from a website. Again, you are trivializing a mainstream source.

If you don't believe Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International then there isn't much else to debate.

Your definition of OFFICIAL is something that is State sanctioned.

Considering the fact that, like I said, dissidents are locked up and the most elementary rights are restricted in Turkey, your contention that my sources are not official is a fucking joke.

You dismissed the fact that Leyla was imprisoned. You said she talks all the time? Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

She's been in and out of jail for years.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...in-turkey.html

Kurdish politician Leyla Zana was sentenced by a Turkish court Thursday to two years imprisonment after being convicted of spreading "terrorist propaganda", the NTV television station reported. The court in the south-eastern city of Diyarbakir found that the winner of the 1995 European Parliament Sakharov Peace Prize had spread terrorist propaganda during a political rally last year.

This was in April.

[Elvis]

I don't know how long you have been stupidly labeling countries out here(terrorist Colombia, this, that) but hopefully this'll be your last.

Oh noes!

Colombia is even easier. Roaming death squads murder dissidents there.

[Mayareira]

most elementary rights are restricted in Turkey

Like WHAT? She got imprisoned for supporting terrorism against state. I am enjoying this actually, keep re-posting same articles from different websites and continue your pathetic labeling. In 700 year history, 2 imprisoned people(which were justified by court).

[Kuya]

Wasn't there also an Armenian genocide during WWI, in what used to be the Ottoman Empire that is now Turkey?