Brd question

[barber2006]

Well, if BRD enfeebles work like the recent test results for BLM nukes, then 1 CHR = 1 skill = 1 macc up to mob CHR+10, and 1 CHR = 0.5 macc above mob CHR+10.

So, if you can get 1+ skill/macc instead of 1 CHR, do.
If you can get 2+ CHR instead of 1 skill/macc, do.
If you can get between 1 and 2 CHR instead of 1 skill/macc, what's better depends on what you're fighting and how much CHR you have elsewhere. 120 CHR is probably a good number to shoot for on HNM.

Omega > Balrahn ~ Heaven's > Angel's ~ Nereid (4 CHR vs 3 skill)
Piper's Torque > Wind Torque
Marduk's Tiara ~ Bard's Roundlet +1 > Bard's Roundlet
Marduk's Shalwar > Choral Cannions +1
Roundlet/Osode > Ixion Cloak > Demon+1/Osode
Skill+3 Earring > CHR+2 Earring
Jester's +1 > Astute
Goliard Clogs ~ Oracle's Pigaches (4 CHR vs 3 skill)

I wish it were this easy (and maybe it is). But damnit I keep hearing about 'diminishing returns' when it comes to CHR. Thing about it is, most people who rattle that off give a number as if the targets CHR has no influence on it. Sure would be nice to know those 'magic numbers' like people have figured out for DEX at collibri camp etc.

[Neosutra]

Well, at least I feel better about not having a quantifiable understanding of skill/chr on resist rates.. since no 2 people here agree @.@

[Rama]

I wish it were this easy (and maybe it is). But damnit I keep hearing about 'diminishing returns' when it comes to CHR. Thing about it is, most people who rattle that off give a number as if the targets CHR has no influence on it. Sure would be nice to know those 'magic numbers' like people have figured out for DEX at collibri camp etc.

These anecdotal 'diminishing returns' you refer to from CHR would perfectly be explained if BRD enfeeble (at least the CHR portion) follows the same model as RDM/BLM type enfeebles. Exactly as stated above on this same page, that model applied to brd would look like this:
Under Target CHR+10: 1CHR = 1skill = 1m.acc
Above Target CHR+10: 2CHR = 1skill = 1m.acc

I'm not sure if anyone has ever done any CHR test according to mob type etc, but you can assume, for instance, that BST type mobs have higher native CHR. The first step to finding the true and exact 'magic number' per mob is determining individual mob's total CHR.
~~~
As for string 'build,' I have one, and find it extremely nice to have in Dynamis and Einherjar. The extra Horde Lullaby area as well as the bonus duration is more than handy. Depending on your gear, it may only take 1 or 2 more spots in your inventory to make this 'build' work. Assuming 'mid-level' brd, it might look something like this:

Apollo | Light grip | Nursemaid
AF2 > Demon (+1)| String torque | Musical > Singing/String > CHR ear
CHRbody | AF+1 or Sha'ir | Omega > Balrahn > heaven > angel
Jester+1/Astute | 4%/6%/Gleeman | AF2/Sha'ir/Mahatma | Goliard/Shadow/Marduk > Af2

The best part about this build is that the key pieces, String torque and Nursemaid harp, are downright bargains due to the 'lolstring' stigma. If you currently carry a Wind earring, I would suggest looking to trade it in on a singing earring. Same 1 inventory, dual purposes.

[barber2006]

These anecdotal 'diminishing returns' you refer to from CHR would perfectly be explained if BRD enfeeble (at least the CHR portion) follows the same model as RDM/BLM type enfeebles. Exactly as stated above on this same page, that model applied to brd would look like this:
Under Target CHR+10: 1CHR = 1skill = 1m.acc
Above Target CHR+10: 2CHR = 1skill = 1m.acc

I'm not sure if anyone has ever done any CHR test according to mob type etc, but you can assume, for instance, that BST type mobs have higher native CHR. The first step to finding the true and exact 'magic number' per mob is determining individual mob's total CHR.

In theory I could get behind that, but in practice I should have better results on byakko with SV CHR songs x2 trying to land elegy if they are giving me the equivelent of nearly 70 Macc. But they don't.....its the same poor elegy rate as always. So what I (and I believe many others) are saying is that its almost like once you reach a certain amount of CHR you could add 500 CHR and it wouldn't do anything more. Kinda like once you are 51 levels over a synth it doesn't matter if you are 105 levels over. Your HQ rate simply won't increase.

I would like to believe it keeps making a difference the more you add because that rewards the better geared bards. But in practice I've pulled two seperate three hour merit pts at the bird camp totally naked (other than staff) and not had a single lullaby resisted. I even was using Iron Ram Horn to sleep them. It....just....didn't.....matter. Likewise there are a number of mobs I fought as a fresh 75 in nq af gear that I later fought with the best gear this game has to offer and my debuff rate stayed exactly the same (Bv1 comes to mind).

[Neosutra]

You pulled 2 three hour merit parties nakid w/o a single lullaby resist?..

>.>

I got resisted 5 times in full gear in yesterday's 2 hour meripo Q.Q

[Meat]

was the latter at birds?

[Neosutra]

Ya

[barber2006]

Yes, but in fairness I have full merits for wind and singing......and CHR merits (I know I know, my blm is crying)

[Valyana]

[string build]

Apollo | Light grip | Nursemaid
AF2 > Demon (+1)| String torque | Musical > Singing/String > CHR ear
CHRbody | AF+1 or Sha'ir | Omega > Balrahn > heaven > angel
Jester+1/Astute | 4%/6%/Gleeman | AF2/Sha'ir/Mahatma | Goliard/Shadow/Marduk > Af2

AF+1 body > all
Sad that Erato's Cape is only +4...
Marduk legs > all
CHR feet (Volunteer's Nails, Sha'ir) are also an option.

[fishstix]

Killed 2-300ish mobs in that 2h party? There's bound to be resists no matter what, with the assumed 95% accuracy cap on everything ingame.

[Rama]

AF+1 body > all
Sad that Erato's Cape is only +4...
Marduk legs > all
CHR feet (Volunteer's Nails, Sha'ir) are also an option.

Was assuming a 'less than super-serious' set of available BRD gear when I typed that out. Some version of that gear should be in 'easy' reach of most. Not sure why I put shadow/marduk on feet if that was the assumption but I did.

Yes AF+1 is the best String body.
Yes 10CHR is more than 8CHR (legs).
Not sure why I left off CHR feet option, but yeah they fit there too (I'd probably slot them below AF2 feet unless you have CHR problems).

[Telamond]

Yes, but in fairness I have full merits for wind and singing......and CHR merits (I know I know, my blm is crying)

Not getting resisted once is pretty much bullshit, (stated before with 95% resist rate). I have wind instrument and singing fully merited as well as CHR merits on my Tarutaru BRD with Apollo's Staff and with pretty/exceptionally good gear, and I still get resists against birds.

[barber2006]

I'm not saying it happens everytime, but yeah, in those two parties it did happen. Maybe a few of my elegys didn't land and that freed up lullaby to land everytime. Don't get mad because you get resisted.....

Besides the point wasn't 'OMG I'm so awesome I never get a resist'. The point was its nigh impossible to test anything to do with macc/skill/CHR on bard because everything is either super easy to debuff or a total pain in the ass.

One of the perfect mobs I've found lately that isn't 100% or 10% is the splitting heirs NM (and the plucking wings NM, but I'm scared SCH weather effects would throw things off). But testing Oracle's Pigaches vs. Sha'r vs. golliard would take 10000 casts of each. Everything is just a guess as you can see from the different opinions from very well geared/experianced bards in this thread. Perhaps someone should post a question in Bercus' thread concerning the debuff formula.

[Silenka]

I have enough skill to break the tiers i want to break of march

I think I missed it the first time around but I thought you couldn't break march tiers (or maybe cap march) without like, gjallarhorn and some other crazy stuff. I know about the minuet cap but how do you gear for march?

[Ultimagi]

March effect goes up with every few points (tiers) of combined wind and singing skill, it has no known cap other than the maximum skill you can possibly get.

[Mafai]

For March tiering you would want..

Weapon: Chanter's Staff (+4)
Head: Marduk's Tiara (+7)/Demon Helm +1(+6)/Bard's Roundlet (+5)
Neck: Wind Torque (+7)
Earring: Wind Earring (+3)
Earring: Musical Earring (+5)
Body: Minstrel's Coat (+3)
Hands: Choral Cuffs +1 (+10)
Rings: Nereid Ringx2 (+6)
Back: Astute Cape (+5)
Legs: Choral Cannions +1 ( +8 )
Feet: Oracle's Pigaches (+5)

Gjallarhorn (+20)


Possible to get +63 without horn, +83 with horn.

513 without horn, and without merits.
545 without horn, and with 8 wind / 8 singing.
533 with horn, and without merits.
565 with horn, and with 8 wind / 8 singing (formerly 560 cap until release of new gear)

I believe the march tiers were as follows:

487-505
506-512
513-532
533-545
546-552
553+ being the highest possible, only with Ghorn.

[Ultimagi]

A full list is available on BG wiki.

[Silenka]

Thanks ^^ I didn't know there wasn't a march cap.

[Tubbers]

Killed 2-300ish mobs in that 2h party? There's bound to be resists no matter what, with the assumed 95% accuracy cap on everything ingame.

I'm pretty sure the application of this is different for spells.

I.E.

95% Chance full unresist
5% Chance Partial Resist
of that 5%:
95% Half Resist
5% More than half

Of that 5%:
95% Quarter Resist
5% more than quarter


etc. probably not this exactly, but I merited at Birds last night, and in ~190 birds, not a single one resisted Elegy, and only one resisted Lullaby from the BRD. I was parsing this, so I am quite sure. It's extremely unlikely that we would have seen only 1 complete resist total if there was a hard 95% cap.

[Eldelphia]

I'm pretty sure the application of this is different for spells.

<snip>

etc. probably not this exactly, but I merited at Birds last night, and in ~190 birds, not a single one resisted Elegy, and only one resisted Lullaby from the BRD. I was parsing this, so I am quite sure. It's extremely unlikely that we would have seen only 1 complete resist total if there was a hard 95% cap.

I must get them - but I don't remember the last time I got a full resist on Birds. MMJ, yes but not birds. But this is fully geared. I'd be awfully surprised if it were the same otherwise. And I don't have merits because I have other jobs, just a tonne of decent gear. I'd agree that I don't think there's a cap at 95% on it.