Pandemonium Warden attempt on Remora - (Jan. 2nd) PW killed on Page 17

[ringthree]

Man....I thought the 45 minute time limit on TOAU44 was brutal. Sounds like if they made it a three hour time limit you could kill it easily enough. I know the city dynamis zones take about three hours.

As an honest query and for curiosity, how long do most other HNMs take to fight? And hell....how long do these kinds of endgame fights take in other games like WoW?

Depends on the mob, the number of players, how they are equipped and the strategy used. It also depends on what you consider an HNM. Could be anywhere from a minute to 3 hours.

In WoW, some of the fights at the end of Burning Crusade tended to get a bit longer (and I am just making a general assertion here because I have not played close to end-game in WoW) but fights tend to be a lot shorter than FFXI. If I were to hazard a guess it would be something like a minute to like 20 minutes? This does not include the process to get to these fights which FFXI approaches differently. You would have to clear a raid and then do the boss most of the time, while FFXI may have a prerequisite to a fight but it is always done separately from the boss fight and sometimes with a time requirement before engaging in the fight. I think that Dynamis and Salvage are the sole exception. (As a side note, I believe there is definitely space in FFXI to create "raid-like" content. Salvage is an idea like this, but the special requirements kind of change that and still leave space for a timed, instanced, alliance-based end-game zone on a several day cooldown.)

[ringthree]

Dev: They almost beat it? No worries Boss, just a few clicks here... Fixed.

I don't believe they would do this if people brute force killed it, even if it required logging out. It's not like the "glitch" that occurred the first time AV was killable.

[TheBlazed]

Wow i must say you guys seem pretty determined to go through what? 3 or 4 pop's of him. I'm Glad to see you guys progressing.

I haven't said much because Ive been reading pretty much this entire post from you guys Bitching at Narse, to Neosutra Asking politely (o.o), to you guys Not Believing Virtuous Saint was in Apathy to The "Not in Apathy" Flashing next to his name lol. I've learned a lot reading this thanks to VS. Thanks Vs for giving some info.

My ls is going to fight this mob soon and I'm creating a fighting guide of what to expect and I'd like it if any of you could check it out. I'm no where near finished but i have gotten all 4 chariots done and Gurfurlur The Menacing complete. Basically what i am doing is want this forum to be used as "Learn about p.Warden" Site instead of everyone coming here asking "Does he still spawn 20 forms" then getting bitched at by 200 people saying "You fucking idiot don't you read" lol

and no Wiki doesnt give enough detail

Ive taken the time to give pictures and all sorts of stuff. Let me know what u guys think


Site name is dextrose.freeforums.org


Here is Direct link:
Dextrose.freeforums.org • View forum - CountDown To Pandemonium Warden

Scroll down once you click

[Neosutra]

You could have just linked wiki here instead. All you have really done is break it down into an overly complex step by step instruction in 20 different links on what each mob is and what it does.

If your tanks/melee/mages are just now learning how to fight chariots/kings/beastmen leaders, you have bigger problems. A light refresher on "things to remember and stun/watch out for" is nice, but having 8 sections of what tanks/melee/mages should do on each one, and a section for each boss is a bit tedious.

Use the army standard: KISS. Keep it simple stupid!

If your LS is so inexperienced that the real challenge for them is the 10 forms before you get to PW dvergr form, you have bigger problems. Take them out to practice on the mobs first.

For a good strat: Start with a simple overview of what will happen (timeline, progression). Then move to by phase instructions. Then you can start adding in some fight specific instructions.

Not to mention there are a few problems with your strat in general. You are relying on one of your blm parties to disband and join your PW alliance to DD after they kill the lamps. With the time spent killing the lamps, getting ready too, and being killed, you will lose a SHIT TON of damage over time and probably not make it to the final form anyways. Not to mention magic is bad against gulool, gurfur, and hydra.

There are other problems with the basic strat, but Ill go into that later if anyone else doesnt, as I am getting ready for bed and have been traveling all day. Good luck with your pop.

[TheBlazed]

Well.. They have fought the mobs he spawns into with maybe less being the Beastmen kings and dverg. We pretty much know how to take most of these down. Only problem being Cerberus Form and of course the dverg. im still working on those

This is more of a Guide to things he does for people outside the ls and people here in the BG Community. I didn't type it as a Tutorial for this fight, more of as a reference when fighting.
Even tho i said fighting guide i did mention it was what to expect as in what i plan to do.



But i def will do that, we seem to do that on most znm's give a brief desciption of what we about to face in a few minutes then progress from there.

but like i said i want it to be used as a "Where can i read up on some of p.wardens form" if anyone ever wants to know

Wiki gives you know the basics but As for Detailed explanation that is what i have created just as an aid. its not a "How you should fight explanation" you gotta make your strategy honestly.


Edit: One thing i am Confused about is on his last form it was said Somewhere that His Dverg Skull forms only take DMG from Thunder type spells is this correct or?

[Hapernack]

I don't believe they would do this if people brute force killed it, even if it required logging out. It's not like the "glitch" that occurred the first time AV was killable.

Massive DRK zerging wasn't a "glitch" either. I guess that means we ca-... oooooh wait.

[ringthree]

Massive DRK zerging wasn't a "glitch" either. I guess that means we ca-... oooooh wait.

If you can't see the difference you are a bit short-sighted.

[Hapernack]

If you can't see the difference you are a bit short-sighted.

Sooooo "brute killing" wouldn't include 13+ Mkris/Kclub Blood-Weapon/Souleater DRKs blasting away at full speed?

[ringthree]

Sooooo "brute killing" wouldn't include 13+ Mkris/Kclub Blood-Weapon/Souleater DRKs blasting away at full speed?

No, it wouldn't, in my opinion. I think the difference between what is happening with PW here and what happened with KC DRK zerging AV is rather obvious. PW isn't very KC DRK zergable to begin with.

[Hapernack]

I never said PW was DRK-zergable but I am saying that essentially you're playing with the same type of situation. Ultimately this will test of PW is another "SE-baby" or not.

[ringthree]

I never said PW was DRK-zergable but I am saying that essentially you're playing with the same type of situation. Ultimately this will test of PW is another "SE-baby" or not.

And I am saying that they are not the same type of situation. AV and PW are now both not zergable. My opinion is just that I don't think they will change it, based on that.

I don't think it should be necessary to brute force either of these mobs, and I doubt it would be necessary to do so if SE would just give up the ghost and fucking tell us how to do it, or at least give us a decent freaking clue.

[Suiram]

The difference between AV and PW is that, assuming PW will start being killed sooner rather than later with a brute force method, it's only a matter of time before people figure out the "trick" as a result. Just in the course of killing it, people will start to notice things. Maybe in somebody's fight he skips a form or something, or whatever the trick turns out to be, and the community will analyze what was significant about that fight as compared to others. AV that doesn't happen, because people either play around with it for a short time and wipe, or they just don't bother at all, so that chance of stumbling upon whatever we were supposed to figure out long ago (in the minds of the SE devs) doesn't get enough opportunities to occur.

That's my view, anyway.

[dys0r]

What do you mean by "brute force?" Do you mean, like throwing numbers upon numbers on PW? Because even without its lamps, PW's AoE moves can and will instantly wipe out people. PW gets stronger and stronger as its HP lowers (most notable below 50%), often one shotting melees - by often, I mean 95% of the time.

Right now, PW is way too rare of a pop to collect, so theories will be hard to test. That isn't to say we didn't test a lot of our own ideas, but finding out gimmicks will surely be difficult. How can you stop Astral Flow without exploiting /logout? See, even with that method, we waste precious time rebuilding parties/alliances. Time we basically don't have because of the stupid 2hr limit. And then to have to do it every 25% wastes even more time.

If there is a way to avoid or lessen Astral Flow damage, then I say everyone attempting PW will be one step closer to defeating it.

[Suiram]

Sorry, by "brute force" I meant like what you guys in Apathy did. Kill all the forms as quickly as you can, try to kill PW, try to do it before 2Hs run out. As opposed to playing around searching for a trick to make the fight faster or easier (which is what usually happens with AV when people attempt it at all).

[Neosutra]

Honestly I hadnt really considered PW one shotting melees, so I guess I should rework my DDs on it for the final phase. Blms seem to be bad due to high intelligence. Melee get killed to easily?

Is it the TP moves that are killing them or AoE magic damage? I can see a cackle -> Blizzaga3 hurting w/o the proper MDB buffs. But from previous Dvergr fights I didnt see the TPs being more than a pain in the ass.

Rngs/Smns/??? for damage on PW final form?

[ringthree]

The difference between AV and PW is that, assuming PW will start being killed sooner rather than later with a brute force method, it's only a matter of time before people figure out the "trick" as a result. Just in the course of killing it, people will start to notice things. Maybe in somebody's fight he skips a form or something, or whatever the trick turns out to be, and the community will analyze what was significant about that fight as compared to others. AV that doesn't happen, because people either play around with it for a short time and wipe, or they just don't bother at all, so that chance of stumbling upon whatever we were supposed to figure out long ago (in the minds of the SE devs) doesn't get enough opportunities to occur.

That's my view, anyway.

I do think that is a possibility and I sure hope it is the case.

[ringthree]

What do you mean by "brute force?" Do you mean, like throwing numbers upon numbers on PW? Because even without its lamps, PW's AoE moves can and will instantly wipe out people. PW gets stronger and stronger as its HP lowers (most notable below 50%), often one shotting melees - by often, I mean 95% of the time.

Right now, PW is way too rare of a pop to collect, so theories will be hard to test. That isn't to say we didn't test a lot of our own ideas, but finding out gimmicks will surely be difficult. How can you stop Astral Flow without exploiting /logout? See, even with that method, we waste precious time rebuilding parties/alliances. Time we basically don't have because of the stupid 2hr limit. And then to have to do it every 25% wastes even more time.

If there is a way to avoid or lessen Astral Flow damage, then I say everyone attempting PW will be one step closer to defeating it.

I use "brute force" to mean killing it without using the probable "trick" to skip forms, or weaken it in some other way. You could also call it killing it in "hard mode".

[Ultimagi]

How do we know this is not the way Square-Enix intended it to be killed?
Personally I think the only "trick" to Pandemonium Warden would be to avoid Astral Flow without logging out.

[Neosutra]

Repeating what I said above:

What damage did people notice was best for the final phase? (And which problems did the melee have being one shotted, I dont see the TP moves insta-raping any of the melee).

[Virtuous Saint]

I use "brute force" to mean killing it without using the probable "trick" to skip forms, or weaken it in some other way. You could also call it killing it in "hard mode".

There is a high probability it is exactly as intended, there is no tick to skipping forms, there is no trick to make the fight faster or easier. SE said in a recent interview 'you might be able to kill it' or something of the sort; they want you to be extremely knowledgeable in all of the forms, and be very efficient in the manner you go about killing the forms.

They probably expect you to have several alliances(or they didn't think hard enough about what making this fight 2hr limit requires of people, however they did cut the number of forms in half, and reduced the HP by maybe half), but before they made this large adjustment to it, it did not require the large damage output it now does.

It is likely they just made the adjustments they saw would be effective to AV and PW as quickly as possible to make it in the very next update that followed the large media cries(which was not long after the media attention). If I had to guess, and I do.. they did not test these adjustments very well if at all before throwing them in that patch.

So, ya it could have some sort of secret to skip forms(unlikely considering name, and what not) similar to how AV has some secret to its defeat(which likely isn't possible now, when you consider the fact that you will have maybe 1.5hr max to lock, and kill in), but PW can be killed right now, as is, and without any known trick. The simple fact is you need the right jobs, the right strategy, and enough damage/people to kill in 2hr limit it currently has. I like the difficulty of the fight, and how the time limit forces efficiency, but it could use 30min-1hr limit boost.