PLD/RDM: Why?

[Kurt Cobain]

I just tried it on Ixion with

Haute/Aegis/LK+1
Kaiser Schaller/Shield Torque/Hades+1/Ethereal
Ares/Homam/DRing/JRing
Shadow/Velocious/Homam/AF+1

for idle, hate control was definitely better but I get pummeled like tina turner on unlucky streaks with no block was using tacos, had RDM WHM Ghorn BRD as support

[Hosom]

The most simple answer I can give you is that it is fun.

[CoronA1979]

There just rly isn't too many mobs in the game that a good PLD/RDM can't handle.. I honestly have been considering tossing /NIN to the side almost completely with the exception of very very few things...

If you ever watch a PLD/NIN on Ixion and then the same fight watch a PLD/RDM, you will take the PLD/RDM all day. Guaranteed. Same goes for almost any fight, things such as Tiamat included..

[Seraphus]

There just rly isn't too many mobs in the game that a good PLD/RDM can't handle.. I honestly have been considering tossing /NIN to the side almost completely with the exception of very very few things...

If you ever watch a PLD/NIN on Ixion and then the same fight watch a PLD/RDM, you will take the PLD/RDM all day. Guaranteed. Same goes for almost any fight, things such as Tiamat included..

I hope you're talking about having an aegis too.

Because unless an aegis is involved, there's a lot of fights that PLD/RDM won't produce quite the results that PLD/NIN will.

[Byrthnoth]

As far as I can tell, the spam rate is proportional to the stability of hate. This is probably most obvious on Jailer of Love, if you send a bunch of pimped out melees in to kick his ass for you. Your tanks and melees will both be capped on CE and VE (if your melees are any good and you give them some buffers), so how are your tanks holding hate?

The biggest benefit I see to PLD/RDM is a constant spam of VE spells (meleeing for 1-10 isn't going to keep your VE at cap even /NIN.) You can think of a ton of ways for someone to hit the VE cap, but after you've fought Tiamat for 45 minutes and all the BLMs have CE capped, them pulling hate is just a matter of whether or not they can cap VE while Tia is in the air (and trust me they can and I do.) Prioritizing Enmity down gear lowers their damage and is unnecessary with a good enough tank, so just be a good enough tank instead of making them wear Enmity-.

As I understand it, the last person to hit the VE cap gets priority for monster attention when monster attention updates. So the only way to make absolutely sure that you have hate is to spam a spell and re-cap VE after every nuke. Enter Blind, Poison, Barspell, whatever is appropriate. Now, Tia might not be an ideal target for PLD/RDM (especially as a holding job) because obviously he hits like a frigging Mack Truck on the ground and it's not as MP efficient as /NIN, but you get the idea.

PLD/NIN has plenty of spike VE tools, but nothing really spammable to recap VE. Protect and Shell have 80 VE. That sure isn't enough. Blind? 640 VE and costs 9MP. Recaps your VE every time you cast it. That's /RDM's advantage, and the advantage of NIN/DRK or /RDM over PLD/NIN. They can both cap hate, but with constant spammage NIN/DRK can hold themselves at cap more consistently. Obviously, PLD/NIN's advantage is survivability.

[HadesChubbs]

Hey someone whose not dumb!

ftbg. lol. pld/rdm so useless, noone should use it. sup nin/war best tank evar.

edit: spelling etc. i fucked up one of the like 5 words i could have

[rog]

As far as I can tell, the spam rate is proportional to the stability of hate. This is probably most obvious on Jailer of Love, if you send a bunch of pimped out melees in to kick his ass for you. Your tanks and melees will both be capped on CE and VE (if your melees are any good and you give them some buffers), so how are your tanks holding hate?

except that any tank without /nin isn't likely to build up any significant amount of CE (let alone cap it...) on anything that hits for more than 30~50 damage per hit, because they lose it faster than they can generate it. /nin has the advantage of only losing 25 ce per hit, instead of up to several hundred.

[rog]

As far as I can tell, the spam rate is proportional to the stability of hate. This is probably most obvious on Jailer of Love, if you send a bunch of pimped out melees in to kick his ass for you. Your tanks and melees will both be capped on CE and VE (if your melees are any good and you give them some buffers), so how are your tanks holding hate?

except that any tank without /nin isn't likely to build up a significant amount of CE on anything that hits for more than 30~50 damage per hit, because they lose it too fast. /nin has the advantage of losing 25 ce per hit, instead of up to several hundred.

[Byrthnoth]

After getting home, I ran some more exact numbers based on the average, above average Paladin(if that makes any sense at all), and came to the conclusion that as long as one isn't taking more than ~2,500 damage/minute, there is a definitely net gain of cumulative enmity, which is obviously something the job struggles to build compared to other tanking classes.

I just assumed Tsuko was right.

Edit: It isn't like PLD has any spammable CE stuff either.

[Shuemue]

I coulda sworn you made this same topic before..

You're forgetting this is the 65 MNK who was obsessed with soloing Genbu with Chi Blast.

[Tsuko_Asura]

except that any tank without /nin isn't likely to build up a significant amount of CE on anything that hits for more than 30~50 damage per hit, because they lose it too fast. /nin has the advantage of losing 25 ce per hit, instead of up to several hundred.

You'd need to take ~2,500 damage/minute to have a net loss of CE if you're Dispelling six times and flashing twice in that window, which isn't too bad.

[Malacite]

Try tanking Alexander without /RDM. Go on, I dare you.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Try tanking Alexander without /RDM. Go on, I dare you.

Done. Have tanked it /DRK twice. Why is this an accomplishment exactly?

[Kurt Cobain]

did it /war as one of the first groups, i'm not sure what sense you saying that makes

[fishstix]

pld/rdm solo vv go!

[The Stig]

Done. Have tanked it /DRK twice. Why is this an accomplishment exactly?

I agree. Please elaborate.

[Duber]

A properly prepared Paladin can and will participate in a quite significant amount of an alliance's damage output.

I have never bothered about damage output as paladin. Even now with atonement I take it as an extra, for fun or for the enmity it generates rather than to help on the damage output.

As for /rdm, as you stated its best for certain situations where you don't take any physical damage or where you would use /war and fight takes longer than a minute. For other situations I stick to /nin or /war.

[Kurt Cobain]

MORE DAMAGE = MORE ENMITY

[Starr]

Try tanking Alexander without /RDM. Go on, I dare you.

huh, done it 3x with PLD/WAR

[kandiekane]

PLD/RDM is a solo job combo aside from ouryu and JoL.

There will always be a better, more appropriate, more efficient, or equivalent job combo in any other situation.