PLD/RDM: Why?

[kisada]

I'll probably end up sticking by /NIN for everything but am considering seriously making the switch to /RDM for Dark Ixion on a permanent basis. If I'm gonna be the only tank out there though, is that a good idea? That trample move zaps MP sometimes which really hurt me last time as PLD/RDM and since then I've not been happy with being anything but /NIN.

imo i like single tanks on ixion more than dual tanks. with 2 tanks you dont have two different erase assignments for bind/grav when spear/wrath are coming. with just one, though, you can have all the whm subs in your pt just spam erase whenever, and the mages in your pt only have one person to cure. sometimes it'll crit then follow up with the rear kick and drop you to orange/red HP, but that's not really a big deal unless your mages drop the ball and leave you with low HP in the first place.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Thanks to Merona and Kurt Kobain for the past few bits, very informative.

[Grey Jorildyn]

imo i like single tanks on ixion more than dual tanks.

I've been saying this for awhile in my linkshell too. We just have too many people trying to play Paladin on a given day that don't have a strong mage or melee job and it sticks me (the least likely person to come on anything non-PLD) on the sidelines a lot. There have been times where my co-tank has died and I've single-tanked it with a full party of support and did just fine. I don't think I'll ever truly convince the entire ls to let me tank DI alone but maybe it's worth a try (again).

Thanks to Merona and Kurt Kobain for the past few bits, very informative.

I try. You're welcome.

[Pivotal]

I just read through this whole post and the whole way through there is people telling other people which way they find efficient ... so if its proven in 3 or 4 different directions i say use them all >.> just have a plan (as stated before) in case shit goes south.

i've personally just started tanking Ixion this past month as my hnmls has moved into camping/killing it, and there is just some shit on that nm that you cannot escape... i am also in the process of making an aegis and i love to use /rdm to tank... i would love to try it on ixion and a few others.

if i remember correctly Wwcc on Garuda in SA used to tank Cerb excal/aegis with /rdm and do just fine... before the new ws and reprisal. also there is a galka pld on Shiva Ate who is in a rival ls that kites KB as pld/drk constantly... tbh i think its a great sub for that fight i haven't had the chance to try it yet but i plan on it /rdm and /drk tanking seem viable in many places but more just a personal touch the the commanding point of this convo... your tank is still a paladin... let us not forget that pld being the main job is the reason why u can /rdm and /drk (tho i do note nin/drk with right gear, support and person playing can tank aswell as pld in alot of cases I.E Richardd in SA who to this day is only nin/drk i like ^^) so i think that its great ppl have found alternate subs to use ... but with the right amount of support a pld can tank MOST things w/ most subs.

1 other thing out of curiosity is using a joytoy for atonement spam really worth the tp trade off on certain shit? i guess it would depend what tp moves u are expecting.

[Pivotal]

I've been saying this for awhile in my linkshell too. We just have too many people trying to play Paladin on a given day that don't have a strong mage or melee job and it sticks me (the least likely person to come on anything non-PLD) on the sidelines a lot. There have been times where my co-tank has died and I've single-tanked it with a full party of support and did just fine. I don't think I'll ever truly convince the entire ls to let me tank DI alone but maybe it's worth a try (again).


I try. You're welcome.

Merona i totally agree with you, like i said even though i've only fought ixion like 8 times now (being everyday for past week >.>) my co-tank in some fights and others being different when tanking with Klaw who i am on vent with and seem to be able to work well with i must say i dont mind 2 tanks though sometimes with others who are not as fast or are still learning it becomes frustrating... anyways Klaw brought up the point one day of while we were getting set up to leave it to just 1 pld while the alli was gathering so since he beat me there i stood aside and just built hate but not enough to pull it. I find this works best... don't remove the second pld completely maybe they will let u solo tank it this way, i don't know. All in all i enjoy it i find it very smooth and fluent and again it leaves u with a back up.. because i have seen ixion after 2 tanks die ^^ (yes its happend to me ; ; still getting used to this pos kicking me in the face for 1k dmg randomly >.>) and its hard to rebuild and establish hate again w/ all the melee and mages who have gone half the fight doing what they need to. Anyways maybe that idea will help u out a bit.. ^^

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yea, maybe that will work. It's not that I want to do it as an accomplishment or something e-peen/silly like that either, it's just that that what Dark Ixion brings to the table seems easier to handle with two erases per tank rather than one.

Considering we're talking about PLD/RDM and now leading into single-tanking, it seems more prudent to consider the heavy support for a lone tank. Let's just throw cures right out the window since we've already talked about that. You're gonna be blood-tanking, which leaves you susceptible to things like the en-bind and en-gravity. Those are really gonna hurt you when trying to reposition from random trample moves or getting hit with Wrath of Zeus. Those enfeebles happen really randomly but are gonna happen when you're not reducing their instances at all through Utsusemi.

As for losing MP from those trample moves, the two Devotions and micro-managing Ares's Cuirass and/or Parade Gorget should keep a single tank a lot more stable than dividing attention between two which can be a real hassle on this mob. If you choose not to keep a 2nd PLD in that particular party, you could run a really strong setup of WHM SCH BRD BRD RDM support, in which the bards would also have an easier time using Pianissimo to 2-song one PLD each rather than four, and saving themselves from having to run in, thus reducing deaths. Essentially that one tank is incredibly pampered and outside of HP totals and bullshit WS > melee hits, that PLD should never die.

I think keeping a 2nd PLD in alliance building some hate is a good idea, but that person really has to be good at gauging their enmity vs. the current tank's. They have to factor in that they're not losing enmity from taking damage and are able to spam their spells more often due to not being knocked-back, silenced, gravitied, or trying to cure themselves (and in my case, yelling at people that are doing something wrong!). For these reasons it would behoove any linkshell's top tank to take other tanks under their wing and really teach them the subtle stuff about tanking. Kaeko's enmity tables are awesome, but things are different in practice and a great tank is aware of that and knows how to accommodate for it as well.

[Pivotal]

Yea, maybe that will work. It's not that I want to do it as an accomplishment or something e-peen/silly like that either, it's just that that what Dark Ixion brings to the table seems easier to handle with two erases per tank rather than one.

Considering we're talking about PLD/RDM and now leading into single-tanking, it seems more prudent to consider the heavy support for a lone tank. Let's just throw cures right out the window since we've already talked about that. You're gonna be blood-tanking, which leaves you susceptible to things like the en-bind and en-gravity. Those are really gonna hurt you when trying to reposition from random trample moves or getting hit with Wrath of Zeus. Those enfeebles happen really randomly but are gonna happen when you're not reducing their instances at all through Utsusemi.

As for losing MP from those trample moves, the two Devotions and micro-managing Ares's Cuirass and/or Parade Gorget should keep a single tank a lot more stable than dividing attention between two which can be a real hassle on this mob. If you choose not to keep a 2nd PLD in that particular party, you could run a really strong setup of WHM SCH BRD BRD RDM support, in which the bards would also have an easier time using Pianissimo to 2-song one PLD each rather than four, and saving themselves from having to run in, thus reducing deaths. Essentially that one tank is incredibly pampered and outside of HP totals and bullshit WS > melee hits, that PLD should never die.

I think keeping a 2nd PLD in alliance building some hate is a good idea, but that person really has to be good at gauging their enmity vs. the current tank's. They have to factor in that they're not losing enmity from taking damage and are able to spam their spells more often due to not being knocked-back, silenced, gravitied, or trying to cure themselves (and in my case, yelling at people that are doing something wrong!). For these reasons it would behoove any linkshell's top tank to take other tanks under their wing and really teach them the subtle stuff about tanking. Kaeko's enmity tables are awesome, but things are different in practice and a great tank is aware of that and knows how to accommodate for it as well.

i agree, tho i dont have an ares cuirass.... >.> not touching that subject lol..
but anyways i agree, that the paladin on the sidelines needs to watch their hate much closer then if they were up front taking it to the face aswell i dont know if i would have them outside the tank pt but as for brds and casting... i dont let my brds come down to cast aoe so they need to hit both tanks 2 times a piece we keep standard pt set up of brd/whm rdm/whm whm/sch(orsmn)x2 and pld/ninx2 this is for now.. like i said i dont have an aegis yet so i dont want to try /rdm till i am done, maybe i can convince klaw to try /rdming it solo and i was not implying u wanted to do it solo for epeen ^^ you seem very level headed and very much so about completing the objective. which i would have to say is what i am for personally. only thing about having 1 pld with 5 ppl taking care of him i think the only way to make that work would to be /rdm due to the hate spam. to make things work with 1 pld/nin would be hell to keep hate... i may have a lot to learn still but i know after 4 years of doing it when u dont have anything left to cast but cure spells and ur being bombed you lose hate faster then ixion kills a ranger ^^.

[Max™]

Word +1... was talking to Arc about that.

Co-tanking is not a race, you're not trying to beat the other guy on hate, you're trying to make sure that if ANY fucking thing happens, the first person it turns to is the other tank.

[Capo]

ive done ixion as both pld/nin and pld/rdm, the 1st time i went pld/rdm it was the first time i had used it outside ouryu so at the start i was trying different songs out and it was a little shaky but once i got used to it and stuck with ballad x2 nobody pulled hate again. /nin is ok but you just spend too much time casting shadows instead of hate spells.

and yes merona 1 pld is much easier, tell your ls to stop being pussies and you will wonder why you ever used two in the first place

[Kurt Cobain]

and yes merona 1 pld is much easier, tell your ls to stop being pussies and you will wonder why you ever used two in the first place

what he said. I've been trying to find a way to say that eloquently for a couple of hours but he put it much more succinctly, once you use 1 tank you will never go back <_<

[Pivotal]

sounds good.. i think i will try /rdm soon or maybe have an aegis pld do it for me >.> lol does it make a huge difference in the longevity of the paladin /rdm ? or can someone with out do it just aswell? i dont think my dynamis shield will help as much =p lol

[Kurt Cobain]

I personally wouldn't do it if I didn't have Aegis, watching other lses (they suck in general though), try it with Koenig Shield PLD/RDM failed pretty miserably, but it probably works at the expense of more MP.

[Capo]

i dont have aegis or haute and only ever come close to dying if im still bound when wrath of zeus comes or if it acherons kicks me twice in a row, god damn sparkles @_@

[Grey Jorildyn]

It sounds as if the Aegis really makes of breaks this fight as PLD/RDM. Finally, my shield is gonna get some use! >.>

[Pivotal]

lol gdi now i reaaallly wanna finish ... to bad currency is retardedly high here >< 12-13k per bronze 10-11k for t shells... anyways i know this isnt rly an ixion thread but i would like to ask since we seem to focusing this on him, is he saposed to randomly wraith or spear sometimes? because he didnt first few times we fought him but now hes doing least once a fight. p.s getting back to back kicks to the face does suck oh! and one more thing >.> if he kicks u do you find his melee attacks to hit harder right after? like 500+ dmg normal melee?

[Grey Jorildyn]

anyways i know this isnt rly an ixion thread but i would like to ask since we seem to focusing this on him, is he saposed to randomly wraith or spear sometimes? because he didnt first few times we fought him but now hes doing least once a fight. p.s getting back to back kicks to the face does suck oh! and one more thing >.> if he kicks u do you find his melee attacks to hit harder right after? like 500+ dmg normal melee?

Ixion will always spear after it "charges" its horn (looks like it's using Boost). It will always use either Wrath or Zeus immediately after doing that, but if it's in rage mode (purplish cloud surrounding it), then it has a high chance of doing two TP moves back to back (wrath/wrath, spear/spear, or one of each in any order).

When it's in "rage" mode is also turns and uses Archeron Kick in a random direction, which of course sucks. Normally it only seems to use it when hate is pulled in a given direction. And yes, i do see that increased melee attack after some weapon skills. I will post screenshot when I get home... I posted that on my forum.

[Kurt Cobain]

When it Tramples, if you avoid it, its next attack stays supercharged and will do increased damage the next time it hits you. It also carries over to kick and maybe rampant stance as well

[phrost]

Wrath of Zeus

(wrat/wrath zeus/zeus)

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9...4144lg4.th.jpg

Wrath/Wrath or Spear/Spear , perhaps?

He seemed to like to Asheron Curbstomp/Asheron Curbstomp last night.


he doesn't seem to go "BEEP BEEP" back to back. Coincidence?

[Max™]

Pld/Rdm without Aegis is doable if you're like, only missing Aegis, and have proper support.

In fights besides Ouryu/JoL I mean, as those it doesn't matter, you just wanna pump hate.

I found the perfect way to phrase it a while back.

Paladin is a hate bucket, but it leaks a bit.
/War is like tossing water balloons into a leaky bucket, big splash... then it's gone.
/Nin is like plugging the leaks and filling it up with a faucet, takes a sec to get going but then trying to pull hate is like trying to move around a big heavy bucket of water.
/Rdm is like filling the bucket with a fucking water hose, but it still leaks... Aegis plugs those leaks though.

[Pivotal]

ixion has a rage timer? we killed it one day very slowly due to lack of ppl online was a long time before it was dead... never a huge change in attitude o.o also some other lil ls claimed and killed it via 3.5 hours time .-.