Blue Mage Tanking

[Yugl]

Over the top forum reaction!

I guess, but when do six people need Phalanx (Where it will make a difference). Don't forget using accession means we waste a JA that could otherwise be used towards different spells. Depending on what that spell is, it could be more important than Phalanx.

Conditional statements (Not really formed as such, but the conditions are there).

The situations in which Accession will be more useful towards -na spells and SS come up way more than situations in which Phalanx will be useful. Do you play SCH?

Who cares if Phalanx is better than Phalanx II because of differences in the effort it takes to maximize them? You're making all these points, but there's no argument behind them. It's like saying the sky looks blue. Ya so?

[Chantal]

this is just stuff from my blog. 1 = hate gain, 2 = physical defense, 3 = magical defense, 4 = hp

1: Hate is gained through spamming many spells such as Exuviation that give a lot of CE and VE, similar to RDM. However, BLU gets the epic combo of hate gaining which is diffusion + exuvation which'll give 640*P CE and VE at the same time, where P is the number of party members you hit with Exuviation. It maxes out at 3840 CE and VE BEFORE enmity enhancements, or more than 1/3 of the way to capping for only 40 MP. For reference, Invincible gives 7200 total enmity whereas this gives 7680 (and Invincible's is all VE). Between spell spam + diffusion/exuviation, BLU can build hate faster than any other job.
2: BLU gets the same exact PDT gear as RDM, and pretty close to the same gear for DEF+. The second most broken thing about BLU/NIN though is Cocoon, which allows BLU to get more than 700 DEF along with -44% PDT. BLU/NIN can take less damage/hit unblocked than any other job in the game.
3: BLU/NIN doesn't get anything special over RDM for Magic Damage. They cap out at -31% with a Minerva's, -37% with a D.ring, but you only need -25% (maybe a little less) with shellra V. With well-timed Saline Coats they can take very low magic damage on powerful spells, and can survive through chainspell/manafont on AV and such. They can also get Magic Defense Bonus job trait at level 50.
4: BLU gets the same exact base HP as RDM. They can get Max HP Boost job trait, but iirc that's only +30. Nothing great, nothing shabby, but they take so little damage that it doesn't really matter. Also their set spells give HP/MP+ as well as other stats.

imo BLU can be the best tank, or at least tied with PLD (though I don't like PLDs except as sub tanks lol). Just sucks that the job is so obnoxious to level/gear... mine's at 49 and probably staying there lol.

A lot of that was probably said already but I didn't read the whole thread.

tl;dr, BLU is a really good tank.

[Alvinho]

I'd love to meet a RDM with a Glamor Jupon, Enhancing Torque, Augmenting Earring, Merciful Cape, Warlock's Tights, and Duelist's Gloves. And then of those, I'd like to meet the ones that actually have 5/5 Phalanx II.

Even though I do have all of these items, you don't even need the Glamor Jupon if you have all the other items. Just saying.

[eva00r]

After PLD gained Atonement, I am now leaning toward PLD when the mob is melee-able with ~50% accuracy at least. A joytoy atonement spam PLD can now be counted as a DD as well. Unlike BLU, which need to trade some significant MP for dealing good amount of damage.

However, BLU is the best co-tank/sub-tank ever IMO. PLD PLD BLU RDM WHM BRD is now my best tank party setup. BLU can throw some support spells (D.Hide, Stun, Flash, M.Fruit) while standing in the back line and if shit happen to PLDs, BLU can step over to take a full tanking role with just only a Diffusion/Exuviation.

[Raytheon]

Didn't mean to start a derail about SCH, however the arguement is with BLU tanks. If there's a SCH in my tanking PT, and I'm tanking on BLU, you can bet I'll be asking him for phalanx.

I actually have Phalanx unlocked, but by no means will I waste merits getting it 5/5 lol. Tossing up a Phalanx 2 on the tank at the start of the fight is about all I use it for. That way the tank (usually PLD) can spend more time getting hate and less time worrying about curing themselves.

My LS leader is being a little girl about me tanking on BLU though ; ;

[Tsuko_Asura]

So don't give him the option. Show up to an event and start tanking. Just be damn certain that you can handle yourself, because you won't be getting another shot if you make a fool out of yourself on a self-granted trial run.

[richardd]

So don't give him the option. Show up to an event and start tanking. Just be damn certain that you can handle yourself, because you won't be getting another shot if you make a fool out of yourself on a self-granted trial run.

my man.


thats exactly how i got to be the tank bitch in my LS. at 1st they hated nin. but when you show up and have your actions speak louder than words, you're going to wish you can go samurai more often


even with 5+ aegis's i was one of the main tanks. i took too much pride in it. do it with your BLU. i wish i could see how that holds up. i never had the opportunity to tank with one. im very open minded about stuff like that.

[nekura]

my man.


thats exactly how i got to be the tank bitch in my LS. at 1st they hated nin. but when you show up and have your actions speak louder than words, you're going to wish you can go samurai more often

Is that how you started tanking on SAM? XD

[richardd]

Is that how you started tanking on SAM? XD

kind of, lol. I got all my inspiration from people like Rukenshin. i didnt really set the bar, like he did. All i did was mimic it and expose it more to ppl like us, especially after he went to play with BTL in WoW. Im glad i did though. Sam tanking is no joke if you have the support for it. It could keep up with my nin or jack's pld or rdm's on things i had the freedom to go balls to the walls on. like Odin or Khim. But it was only if the support was there.

So yeah, if a crazyass like me can do it, ANYONE can.

[stewie]

my man.


thats exactly how i got to be the tank bitch in my LS. at 1st they hated nin. but when you show up and have your actions speak louder than words, you're going to wish you can go samurai more often


even with 5+ aegis's i was one of the main tanks. i took too much pride in it. do it with your BLU. i wish i could see how that holds up. i never had the opportunity to tank with one. im very open minded about stuff like that.

So you just showed up and said 'I'm tanking bitches'? Haha

[Isiolia]

Even though I do have all of these items, you don't even need the Glamor Jupon if you have all the other items. Just saying.

Or the earring. One of the two. I have all of that sans the earring, including 5/5 Phalanx II >_> Still nets me 301 Enhancing, which for purposes of the spell is the same as 304.

[Davricle]

I think the thing I like most about Richardd is how understated he is in his accomplishments. Sure he is proud of them, and likes talking about them, but he is also very gracious and gives credit where it is due. He is also not like all the other retards who feel they have to bash the game and discuss how horrible it is just cause they quit or were banned.

ib4 cockridin'

[Panthera]

imo BLU can be the best tank, or at least tied with PLD (though I don't like PLDs except as sub tanks lol).

Also note that Blue has a larger manapool than Pld. Fast Cast gained via job trait is also noticeable on Ni, which also helps the /nin aspect.

One significant feature of blue/war is the combination of Defender + Cocoon, resulting in DEF 700+ easily with food after Protect IV. In campaign battles, it felt as if non NMs were trying to tickle me to death with melee attacks. The funny thing is, Defender doesn't hurt blue's capacity to do physical damage via spells.

However, I would point out that Paladins have Sentinel and Reprisal, the combination of which puts formerly dangerous Dynamis monks as no longer threatening. The monks are a huge reasons to bring Paladins to Dynamis in the first place. Blue/pld would be a compromise, having both flash and actinic burst, and auto refresh without having to use spell set points on it, and still have Sentinel for monks. However, loss of Defender means a substantial loss in DEF.

[Agana]

BLU/PLD works much better than BLU/WAR, strictly because of the dimishing return that you receive from Defender at such high defense totals.

the benefits of BLU/PLD is the auto-refresh, no need to waste 9 blue points on it, the healing magic skill, which is a good 70 or 80 points added to your Magic Fruit. Flash is a decent CE hate spell, Sentinel is all around amazing, and coupled with Exuviation+Diffusion, is holy crap hate. Shield Bash is useful, along with Shield Skill and Mastery, where as with 140 skill and a size 2 shield (Genbu's), is able to block quite a bit more than expected.

Before I quit, I had a build devoted to BLU/PLD tanking, Umbras, Full Darksteel+1, Ethereal Earring, and I used Perdu+Genbu. Sometimes Macua+1 as the sword.

Merits were:
Capped Shield
Capped Sword
Capped Blu magic
Capped Healing Magic
4/5 Assimilation
5/5 Diffusion
1/5 Convergence (Just having the JA is extra enmity)

I've easily solo tanked Alexander, Duo blood tanked Charyb with a RDM, Blood tanked Shiki, Duo blood tanked Ulli, Duo blood tanked Ul'Yovra.

Pretty much anything that isnt a HNM can be duo'd with a RDM with that set up.

Magic Fruits can be swapped to a MND set up, and bring about 500 HP, much more efficient healing than C4. Theres pros and cons everywhere, but BLU is def a solid tank

[azagarth]

umm all the nms you said can be soloed by a rdm... so I must be missing it lol? Well all but alexander anyhow (didnt some1 solo him or try? maybe im thinking the guy for sky lol)

dont get me wrong I know blu "can" tank i just fail to see where it is that good unless your going for crowd control. None blood tanks anymore for the fact its not efficient, which is what blu excels at.

Now if there are some blus with real hnm tanking experience that can prove its more worthwhile then other jobs id like to hear it. I really think rdm/nin is going to outdo blu on any hnm just due to safety.

[Nevex]

Not /NIN BLU tank works very well on JoL and Ouryu (Maybe Jormungand, but I doubt it) because of its above average magic defense and enmity generation, otherwise it's /NIN all the way.

Where BLU/NIN shines is when you need a huge enmity spike after a hate reset move (Roar, Pile Pitch) and when you can efficiently stun-lock things with physical spells, i.e. Proto-Omega. Otherwise it's behind PLD and RDM in terms of survability.

If you can't make use of physical stuns because of resistance/immunity to them, then BLU/NIN loses effectiveness since its main advantage over the other tanks is negated.
And even if those spells do work, there's the TP feeding factor to consider. I think that in the long run ability to stun-lock > extra TP spam, especially on anything that double/triple attacks and doesn't possess a lot of TP moves that can interrupt Utsusemi casting.

Sadly most endgame things do resist physical stuns, therefore I can't see BLU outperforming PLD, RDM or NIN most of the time, though it's certainly not very far behind.
I'm sure BLU/NIN tank can be efficiently used in a number of BCs, missions and quests, though.

[Suiram]

I disagree that BLU/NIN is only most effective when you can stun-lock it. What has made BLU an effective HNM tank is enmity generation. I mean, when you get to a certain point, it's all nit-picking anyway since any of these jobs, PLD, RDM, BLU, NIN, etc, can tank well, in the sense of reasonable survivability on the mob in question and the ability to cap hate. But to nit-pick for just a second, BLU (not even counting diffusion-exuv here) has roughly equal long-term enmity-generation to RDM/NIN, but better short-term; roughly equal short-term as NIN/DRK, but better long-term; equal to PLD with Atonement, and slightly superior to PLD without. In terms of survivability, it's obviously inferior to PLD, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily inferior compared to RDM. Both those jobs have less to offer than PLD in this department, but between each other they have roughly the same physical and magical reduction and capped recast timers (BLU might have more HP? I'm not sure how much HP RDM tanks usually roll with but Hume BLU is about 1400), and although RDM will have slightly more fast-cast it isn't often that the difference there will matter much. The other main drawback to BLU always worth mentioning is that the above only applies when you are in melee range of the mob (due to spell casting distance) and there are no other mobs in AoE range, so this discounts Fafnir, JoL, Ouryu, and kited fights from the above analysis (not to say BLU can't tank these either, just that the comparison would be different).

This is just my observation of BLU tanking. It seems so often that discussion of tanking comes down to what is the best tank and that people should only use that best tank (just like people should only merit with SAMs), and I really don't mean to address that argument at all, since if that were true it would almost always be PLD. But in practice, in most situations, people use whatever jobs people have on that fit what they need, or depending on the skill of the person with that job, or depending on what job a person has who wants to try out a particular role in a fight. And in that sense, in the overwhelming majority of endgame, any of the jobs I listed above are interchangeable for a tank role. My emphasis here I guess is to include BLU in that "not a PLD but definitely more than adequate" along with RDM &co, as opposed to what people often think of as being a niche role because the job as a tank hasn't been as popularized as the alternatives (just due to trends in the game, and not because of any glaring deficiencies).

[Panthera]

It seems so often that discussion of tanking comes down to what is the best tank and that people should only use that best tank (just like people should only merit with SAMs), and I really don't mean to address that argument at all, since if that were true it would almost always be PLD. But in practice, in most situations, people use whatever jobs people have on that fit what they need, or depending on the skill of the person with that job, or depending on what job a person has who wants to try out a particular role in a fight.

Exactly. It can be a matter of doing the best you can with what you have, in terms of who is on your linkshell at the moment, and who has which jobs available. For example, one could have someone with blue mage tank so that the guy who normally does paladin could come as a much needed Refresher, nuker, healer, or whatever niche needs to be filled.

[azagarth]

I don't know of any ls who goes "oh crap no pld or nin on! pull out the blus!" any endgame shell that comes to that point really has bigger issues then what is tanking lol.

if we want to get picky any job can tank with the right support, fact is /nin is broken and we have /thf if we have to /shutter. I tanked ohat nm on my pup/war lol (nin dc and we only had one left).... does it mean that it is a good combo? Hell no it sucs but with my sam/thf friend and having to many whms it was easy to do ;D we still joke about it....

[Nightfyre]

Doesn't change the fact that BLU has significant advantages over most jobs in terms of hate generation and to a lesser extent damage mitigation. As Suiram said, it's not so much that the job isn't a damn good tank as it is that it got passed over for PLD and NIN and never became a popular tank as a result. It's not like BLU needs more support than a PLD or NIN either, give us enough Refresh to keep spells going and enough Haste to cap recast and we're good to go. Factor in situational advantages like multiple stuns, immediate hate spike after hate reset, and high resistance to magic, and you have a pretty powerful tank.