Blue Mage Tanking

[Suiram]

I don't know of any ls who goes "oh crap no pld or nin on! pull out the blus!" any endgame shell that comes to that point really has bigger issues then what is tanking lol.

That you even respond with this shows that you misunderstood the part of my post where I'm trying to put into context the comparisons between endgame tanks, and that you completely overlooked the part where I do make the comparison showing what I see as being BLU's strengths and weaknesses compared to the other popular tanking jobs.

You asked someone with BLU endgame tanking experience to illustrate what can make it more worthwhile than other tanking jobs, and that's exactly what I tried to do, so please go back and re-read it. Nobody is disputing that PLD is the best endgame tank, and while the difference between a PLD vs. a NIN or a RDM (or a BLU) is relatively small, some people/LSs refuse to consider anything but PLD for that reason. That's fine for them, I already gave my opinion about that mentality. But the minute you start invoking NIN tanks or RDM tanks (as you have in your last two posts) you might as well talk about BLU, too, since it's the same thing--"not as good as PLD, sure, but good enough to tank just about anything."

Ask yourself why you consider NIN or RDM to be an acceptable tank. It's because you saw someone do it, or you read a blog about someone doing it, or you tried it yourself. Obviously you haven't had the same experience with BLU, but then why are you arguing here?

And just so there's no ambiguity, I'm not talking about something like your Hakutaku fight where a bunch of WHMs spam cured you. And I'm not talking about the niche "tankish" things that people commonly think about BLUs, like eating Citidel Busters or crowd control. I'm talking about BLU/NIN taking a spot in a tank PT against HNM, and for that it's more than a perfectly acceptable job, even if it's not widely accepted.

[Thorny]

I think the thing I like most about Richardd is how understated he is in his accomplishments. Sure he is proud of them, and likes talking about them, but he is also very gracious and gives credit where it is due. He is also not like all the other retards who feel they have to bash the game and discuss how horrible it is just cause they quit or were banned.

ib4 cockridin'

I actually see it the other way, he tries to act subtle but every single one of his ffxi-related posts is some form of bragging about his accomplishments.. none of which were original or particularly impressive.

[Suiram]

I actually see it the other way, he tries to act subtle but every single one of his ffxi-related posts is some form of bragging about his accomplishments.. none of which were original or particularly impressive.

Even though that post you quoted is from like 3 months ago, and even though Richardd seems like a perfectly decent guy, I have to agree with you lol Every other post seems to be like Grandpa in his rocking chair, "Sonny, did I ever tell you about the time I just showed up on NIN and my LS was like 'NIN tank? no way' but I got up there and tanked it and they were like 'wow' and from then on I tanked everything even though we had FIVE aegis plds. Has anyone seen my teeth?"

[azagarth]

Ask yourself why you consider NIN or RDM to be an acceptable tank. It's because you saw someone do it, or you read a blog about someone doing it, or you tried it yourself. Obviously you haven't had the same experience with BLU, but then why are you arguing here?

Reason I mention them is because they are better. Its not just about your hate, VE and CE is pretty easy to keep up unless your a gimp who doesnt get what a macro is. With that said tanks are there to minimalize chance at death, thus preventing more deaths by not dying. Blu can hit really good -dmg #s no doubt. However a nin will have an extra shadow (and access to more -dmg) hate should not be an issue /drk really.... once you get a good nin/drk who uses the right gear sets its just amazing how fast and easy the keep hate. 4 shadow ni, access to -50% dmg is just to nice. that 1 shadow may not seem like a lot but it does add up in a 30 min fight. Ive also tried this job combo myself and i love it.

rdm i personally have never tried, though there is good reasons why it is a very good job to tank with. With the fast cast they have they can spam spells a lot easier, get shadows up fast (ichi at near ni speed is impressive). The fact they can spam SS practically to mitigate 375 dmg at low mp cost is amazing. They have same -dmg blu access but blu doesnt have near the safety. Not to mention you talk about one hate tool blu gets and act like its gods gift. ya it rocks but rdm/nin can spam enough spells in first 30 sec to gain sufficient hate, I cant see you losing it unless the DD go ball to the wall immediately. Which if thats the case its probably a zerg and thus no tank lol..... if you want to get technical, open with chainspell I am sure will cement hate to you pretty good ;D

pld is pretty self explanatory... SE just made them to good in last few update to where nearly everything else is subpar to use even in a lot of niche situations.

I am not saying blu cannot tank.. What I am saying is any job can because all can /nin, use -dmg gear, enm gear etc. The fact remains that its not what job can tank, but which is safest to do so. What becomes afe is that job which can tank the least amount of dmg and capp hate fast. Blu isnt bad but when there is 3 jobs I just named that are safer to tank on, and really don't cap hate that much slower why even worry about gearing blu to tank or trying to justify it?

Its like saying whm>rdm>sch>blu can all heal endgame just fine. Would you really chose a blu though? Probably not (even though its super mp efficient and can spam 550 carrots).... you see there is easily 3 jobs ahead of it that do a better job at healing.

sorry for long post. I am not trying fight I just hate how people keep trying to be "unique" in an outdated game which has been tested to many times to see what works. Thats why nearly everyone has multiple jobs nowadays, it just makes sense so you can do stuff with less people. I would rather 6 man faf with a pld tank, then have to bring 9 people just so blu can have the needed support to keep up.. thats all im saying. If you want make blu into endgame work on a nuking set, thats much more beneficial to you shell then trying to be the 20th person with a job that "can" tank.

maybe im just pissy because its midterm week and im just bogged down with work and havent got to play the game in over a week. Nor have i been able to do anything fun.... i mean shit im at college and im spending every damn day free reading for 6 hrs then writing papers the remainder.. took way to many classes but was trying get 2 yrs done in one...... opps on me!

[Thorny]

Even though that post you quoted is from like 3 months ago, and even though Richardd seems like a perfectly decent guy, I have to agree with you lol Every other post seems to be like Grandpa in his rocking chair, "Sonny, did I ever tell you about the time I just showed up on NIN and my LS was like 'NIN tank? no way' but I got up there and tanked it and they were like 'wow' and from then on I tanked everything even though we had FIVE aegis plds. Has anyone seen my teeth?"

Oh, didn't notice it was necrobumped, was on the last page @_@ Regardless, lol'd.

[Suiram]

Asagarth, I really don't care about your college classes. I care that you're trying to argue with someone who knows what they're talking about (me) based on these misconceptions you have. And when I've tried to point out where you have erred in your belief, you misinterpret me or overlook it entirely. You don't sound pissy, you sound ignorant, no offense.

Just to hit a few points where this has happened. You talk about how great NIN is, and admit that it's because you've done it yourself. You talk about your 4th shadow every 20 seconds as if that even matters when the only time BLU (or PLD or RDM) runs into issues with shadows is after they've been wiped by a WS, which would happen to NIN just the same.

You keep talking vaguely about this added "safety" that RDM supposedly has that BLU doesn't.

You talk about about how I talk about the "one hate tool BLU gets" when I specifically said I wasn't considering that--even without Diffusion BLU still generates hate at twice the rate of your NIN/DRK.

You talk about needing more support for BLU when it's already been stated several times that you don't (and you mention Fafnir which is one of the few fights where I said BLU isn't a good tank, which you obviously weren't paying attention to either).

And finally you say you don't see the point in being unique in an outdated game, which is a ridiculous argument by itself, but either way I've been doing this for nearly two years, so it's not my fault FFXI was outdated by the time you first heard about it. Oh yeah, and then you tell me to "work on my nuking set" as if you know me, when I already have a nuking set, and a Cannonball set, and a TP set, and a Breath set, and a general physical spell set, and WS set, and yes, a tanking set, and (sorry if this sounds more condescending and arrogant than your remark) any one of them is better than any of your gear sets, at least going by if you're the Azagarth from Bismark on FFXIAH.

So really, at some point why don't you accept that fact that you actually don't have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to this question, and either let me or whoever else enlighten you, or go away.

[Panthera]

I don't know of any ls who goes "oh crap no pld or nin on! pull out the blus!" any endgame shell that comes to that point really has bigger issues then what is tanking lol.

You'd be surprised.

HNMs have a way of spawning during an LS's off peak hours. You have no absolutely control over this. And it is not inconceivable that a group's main tanks might not be on due to work or school, and furthermore, there are people, *believe it or not*, that don't have Paladin leveled.

At such times, you may otherwise have the numbers to pull off a low man Tiamat, Sandworm, or what have you. Or, maybe one of your main tanks is on, but he also has TH4. So your leaders can say "oh crap, we have no pld or nin on! let's just let some other LS claim him, we'll get the next one...(maybe)." Or you *grow a pair* and let your Blue Mage tank it just as well as a Paladin could.

Sorry for feeding the trolls, but it's a valid point. Not only is it worthwhile to discuss the validity and practicality of Blue Mage tanking, but reasons for doing so as well. Not just as a matter of a job filling a niche nicely, but as a matter of necessity.

[richardd]

I actually see it the other way, he tries to act subtle but every single one of his ffxi-related posts is some form of bragging about his accomplishments.. none of which were original or particularly impressive.

oh lawdy lawdy, please forgive my coattails wayz

yeah i brag sometimes. who cares? i am subtle about it, because braggarts who act like WWE champions dont give off a good impression, and thats not my style. I mean everything i say. When i say "im nothing special. you all can do it too" guess what? i really mean it. ask people who know me IRL, this aint no front. im real, homey g slice

and wth, i bring up all my accomplishments?
probably miscommunication. you see. i got banned. gee wiz. i cant relate to people who have problems with their augments and whatnot. but if someone has an issue on their sam or nin or mnk or whatever. why can i not chime in with my own experience? you make it sound like i answer everyone's question with "idk but i solo tanked AV for 10 min and took 700 dmg meteors"

guess what? nobody cares.

be honest. if someone is trying to kill LBC with 14 ppl and you solo tanked it unweakened with 6 and they sent you a PM about it. im going to say something like "we did it with 6 and i solo tanked it. our setup was this, and we unlocked blah blah 1st and went this route"

ya sure it can come off as bragging. but at that point, i can care less. if thats how i come off, than im sorry.










ok. no. nvm. not gonna lie. im not sorry. i hate how people can judge me w/o even taking the time to talk to me for 10s. im nothing like what you described.
if you can ask most of my FFXI friends what they remember about me by, im sure 90% of them would say something like "he was a goofy mo'fucka" instead of "self gloated, ruke-type tank that actually tanked great" or "the guy that posted parses of him coming #1 on AV zergs"

you make it sound like im sort of secret elitist that laughs at sams that never used a Futsuno before. but you seem to have already made up your mind about me, so its whatever! its coo' brah. just put me down as rykoshet #2

Even though that post you quoted is from like 3 months ago, and even though Richardd seems like a perfectly decent guy, I have to agree with you lol Every other post seems to be like Grandpa in his rocking chair, "Sonny, did I ever tell you about the time I just showed up on NIN and my LS was like 'NIN tank? no way' but I got up there and tanked it and they were like 'wow' and from then on I tanked everything even though we had FIVE aegis plds. Has anyone seen my teeth?"

thought we was boys man! naw its cool. tbh, i took that more of a compliment anyways. im not particularly sensitive as long as i get to make some cracks at you back. but to be fair. i only bring up the things i do when they need to be brought up.

someone made a nin/rdm vs nin/drk thread. im playing SFIV and i get like 4 IM's telling me to post. i post that someone else answered it and i go back to playing SF4. i got more IMs about a few ppl stomping on nin tanks like it aint no big deal. well.. it is to me, because i had a lot of pride in it. i took is VERY serious. i posted a rebuttal. not good enough, because they think the tanks i tanked with sucked. i described (and in other forums posted their gear) about my cotanks. STILL not good enough. i posted parses. not good enough. that mentality you described earlier is too dumb to argue with so why bother. thats why i ignore threads like these unless the OP specifically asks me to post or something. so its nothing deliberate.

but off topic. im curious why few ppl think i do ride coattails. even dr.waffles couldnt help me out with that one. i give credit where credit is due. im not the originator of anything i did and i linked other ppl's LJ's and whatnot for more reference. how is that riding coattails at all? what should i have done? pass it off as one of my own? lol. im not that smUrt.


but to stay on topic.

uhh

ok. i seen drk/nin tank cerb/tia/whatever great. im sure blu can be awesome too. there.

[Ryko]

Damn I wasnt that elitist.

[Titanss]

he's da fuckin man tho

[Yugl]

MY EGO BRINGS ALL DA BOIS TO DA YARD AND MY DAMN KNIGHT IS BETTER THAN YOURS! DAMN RIGHT ITS BETTER THAN YOURS!

[Panthera]

I tried Blue Mage tanking in Dyna-Bastok as Blu/pld. Wore homam, enmity earring and ring, ritter gorget, Hofud and Genbu Shield, ate a taco. Used exuviation, jettataru, flash, actinic burst, Temporal Shift, and self curing for hate. I set fast cast and Conserve MP as traits. Jettataru worked on just about anything for long lasting stuns.

My DEF was nearly 700, i could eat EES no problem. By and large, between terrorizing the mobs and stunning them, the Quadovs weren't "active" and alive long enough to do much damage. MP was never an issue, even with all the spell spamming, in part due to MP statues, but also in part due to low MP costs of hate spells, and quick mob kills. It seems Paladin might have better hate control because they take MORE damage than blu/pld, and are able to self cure for more hate than they lose getting hit.

Still, it seems like the best way to get hate is dealing damage. I'd have more hate spamming the big three than with Exuviation, etc. Blue/nin in dyna with taco and cocoon, shadows and self curing for self preservation, in addition to spamming Big Three might be the best way for blue to "tank" there, but i'd be worried about mob monks sans Sentinel.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'm sorry, but if you're not capable of using Raging Rush or Tachi: Gekko(or Guillotine, I suppose), you shouldn't be a main assist in any zone other than Xarcabard.

[Thorny]

I'm sorry, but if you're not capable of using Raging Rush or Tachi: Gekko(or Guillotine, I suppose), you shouldn't be a main assist in any zone other than Xarcabard.

Ninja is very competitive in terms of damage in cities and beaucedine, as evasion is negligible.on city mobs. Jin lacks a bit, but extra dual wield will typically make up for it.

[Kyte]

Still, it seems like the best way to get hate is dealing damage. I'd have more hate spamming the big three than with Exuviation, etc. Blue/nin in dyna with taco and cocoon, shadows and self curing for self preservation, in addition to spamming Big Three might be the best way for blue to "tank" there, but i'd be worried about mob monks sans Sentinel.

I usually end up with hate in cities; for MNK mobs, Actinic Burst+ Head Butt can usually take care of Hundred Fists.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Ninja is very competitive in terms of damage in cities and beaucedine, as evasion is negligible.on city mobs. Jin lacks a bit, but extra dual wield will typically make up for it.

Fair enough, but I think you see where I was going with that >_>

[Panthera]

I'm sorry, but if you're not capable of using Sentinel or Reprisal (or Invincible, I suppose), you shouldn't be a main assist in any zone other than Xarcabard.

(off topic) Corrected... what exactly is your plan to survive Hundred Fist? Gonna guess you're taking the "Kill it before it kills me" approach? Fool proof, i'm sure. And EES for that matter when shadows are down.

I usually end up with hate in cities; for MNK mobs, Actinic Burst+ Head Butt can usually take care of Hundred Fists.

(on topic) Actinic Burst might cover a few swings, Head Butt maybe one if it procs, Jettataru a few... but HF has a way of lasting long enough to kill the nearest Tarutaru.

[Aben]

Plasma Charge > Shock Spikes have a nice way of reducing hits that get through head butt and actinic burst. That extra stun time also allows time to take care of any healing you might need.

[Thorny]

(off topic) Corrected... what exactly is your plan to survive Hundred Fist? Gonna guess you're taking the "Kill it before it kills me" approach? Fool proof, i'm sure. And EES for that matter when shadows are down.

Grav -> T4 -> sleep while dealing with the other mobs in the pull, not like BLM's damage is worth a shit compared to melee in a good dynamis group. If you have enough melee, you can also save tp and one shot it with WS(not as likely in xarc if you lowman, but meh). If you're that worried about EES, you should practice counting to three and/or remind your BRDs what elegy is.

[Tsuko_Asura]

(off topic) Corrected... what exactly is your plan to survive Hundred Fist? Gonna guess you're taking the "Kill it before it kills me" approach? Fool proof, i'm sure. And EES for that matter when shadows are down.

Attitude? From the guy suggesting actual tanks in cities?