Sorcerer's Ring

[Suiram]

Arthars, I don't know what to say. It works the way I am saying it does, and not the way you're saying it does, but until you approach this topic with that possibility in mind there isn't much we can do.

Kimkytaru, I get 571, same as Massimo put in the edit. He didn't explain how he got that instead of the 564 he'd written earlier, but it's because sorc ring is .76. Yellow HP in that gear should be 541, I think.

[Ultimagi]

Sorcerer's Ring activates at 75% of what your max HP would be if you were naked.

[happydude]

Sorcerer's Ring activates at 75% of what your max HP would be if you were naked.

you're an idiot

[Ultimagi]

I'm sorry, I must have been doing it wrong for the last 3 years. Calling someone an idiot for expressing an idea of how an item works, whether its right or wrong, lacks intelligence.
Prove me wrong.

[Suiram]

Far be it from me to call someone an idiot, but I'll admit that I was thinking the same when I read your post. The entire subject of this topic, and others before it, is that Sorcerer's Ring latent isn't as simple as you have put it. You have already been proven wrong.

[Kaeko]

Technically he's correct; he's just only describing 1 particular case that doesn't encompass every situation. I'm sure that's what he meant, right? =P

[Suiram]

If we're going to get technical, he isn't even correct if he had eaten HP food! But yeah, good point I guess.

[Ultimagi]

Yes that's correct. My way is not wrong, I've proven it to work just fine. If you can activate your ring in a different way using special "calculations" and whatnot, good for you. But I don't like being called an idiot when I'm right.

[Valyana]

Note that the 75% mentioned is "if <hpp> would say 75%", which really means "less than 76% of max HP"

So: equip your nuke gear. Take off any convert hp<->mp gear or HP+% gear and anything in back and right ring slots. Your current max HP is what's used for Sorcerer's Ring latent. Multiply it by 0.76. The next lower integer is the maximum HP you can have and still get the latent.

[Suiram]

Yes that's correct. My way is not wrong, I've proven it to work just fine. If you can activate your ring in a different way using special "calculations" and whatnot, good for you. But I don't like being called an idiot when I'm right.

But you're not right, is the problem, and you haven't proven shit. You may have done what you've described above to determine your own latent, but what actually makes it work is what the rest of us have been discussing, it was only by coincidence that your method resulted in the desired outcome (coupled with the fact that your method is sufficiently near the actual method that it is likely to work). It is a trivial matter to construct examples (actual practical examples too, not just extreme ones like I gave above) where someone following your exact procedure would not activate latent.

[Suiram]

...and in case you or someone else challenges me to find a trivial example that could occur in actual practice, here you go:

Sorcerer's Ring activates at 75% of what your max HP would be if you were naked.

Naked Hume BLM HP is 968. 75% of that is 726. Let's say the BLM is wearing full Morrigans, ele or prudence torque, mold, novio, tamas, sorc, merc cape, and pent rope, phantom tathlum, HQ staff and staff/wise/bugard+1 strap (I think you should agree this is a very possible gear setup for someone). So they have 948 HP.

So they get 3 pieces of Zenith, a Serket ring, and an Astral ring to force latent. 948-225 = 723, all good, right? Except not, because latent is actually triggered at < 948*.76 which is 720 or lower. This is actually an opposite scenario from what we were talking about above, but it is nonetheless one in which your procedure fails. Hope this helped.

[Ultimagi]

You're saying Penitent's Rope changes your "naked max hp" but Gleeman's Cape doesn't? Maybe I'll get around to testing this sometime.

[Kiera]

They're saying it's not a % of "naked base hp", and it's been said several times. >.>

It's a little more complicated than "naked base hp".


Sorcerer's ring activates when you are less than 76% of your "sorc. ring base hp".

For calculating "sorc. ring base hp":

Put on what you'll be nuking in.
Look at your max hp.
Add back/subtract any -/+ hp ONLY from back and/or right ring slots.
Add back any hp you are "losing" by nuking with convert hp>mp gear.

This is your "sorc. ring base hp" which is used for the purpose of calculating sorcerer's ring latent. Take 76% of this # and floor it.


Subtract 1 from this # and that is your desired nuking hp. (I'm honestly not sure this is really necessary because I'm not completely convinced SE floors the number in this calculation. If your 76% number is 715.5 then your nuking hp of 715 is already lower than 76% without subtracting 1)

[Ultimagi]

I thought the mention of equipment, and the word "changes", implied that I understood what they were talking about. I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that. Practically speaking, if I understand your test results, the only piece of equipment this concerns is Penitent's Rope. This would possibly cause Black Mages to think they are activating Sorcerer's Ring, when they really aren't. I'll test that out and keep it in mind. Now if everyone would get off my back, my dispute was with happydude, posting petty namecalling in a forum of intelligent discussion.

[Valyana]

Yes, you only need to subtract 1 if 76% of your max HP is an integer.

[Kiera]

It also seems to screw some BLMs up with Prism/Rainbow cape. The +10/9 hp doesn't count.

I found a post on alla where this BLM was complaining that it worked at 720, but not at 721. He claimed to have 957 "base hp" (907 in nuking gear +50 for z mitts). My guess is that he was wearing rainbow cape, and REALLY had a latent base hp of 948. 76% of that is is 720.48. Assuming SE doesn't floor this calculation, the back piece not effecting his base hp would explain why it worked at 720 but not 721.

Unfortunately, there are no SS's to support his data, so I can't be sure.

DISCLAIMER: THIS LINKED THREAD CONTAINS A LOT OF BAD INFO:
Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Black Mage


Also, it's been a long day and I may be missing something, but p. rope shouldn't effect anything since it fits right in to the "+/- hp gear does change your latent base hp" model. Things that would "mess up" the calculation would be things that add hp in the back or R.Ring slot (gigant, prism, rainbow, bq ring (which only works in L.ring slot)).

I'm not picking on you. I just want to make sure you, myself, and everyone else understands.

[Maaglin]

Yes that's correct. My way is not wrong, I've proven it to work just fine. If you can activate your ring in a different way using special "calculations" and whatnot, good for you. But I don't like being called an idiot when I'm right.

You're a fucking idiot.

Moving on.

Arthar's post on the first page, is yes technically wrong. However, the point I believe he was trying to make is, in general the conept of how sorcerer's ring works. In that sense he is correct and this is the point that people need to learn when trying to activate it.

After a person who doesn't know how the ring works understands that part, they can look closer at the details of things like the back slot and how it works.

[Kaeko]

Technically he's correct; he's just only describing 1 particular case that doesn't encompass every situation. I'm sure that's what he meant, right? =P

Yes that's correct. My way is not wrong, I've proven it to work just fine. If you can activate your ring in a different way using special "calculations" and whatnot, good for you. But I don't like being called an idiot when I'm right.

I was being sarcastic lol

Suiram has pretty much explained why the statement you made is not only misleading, but actually can be incorrect given certain sets of gear.

[Arthars]

didnt know back pieces didnt work for prism users ._.

im in merciful sorry if im confused XD

[Kimkytaru]

Arthars, I don't know what to say. It works the way I am saying it does, and not the way you're saying it does, but until you approach this topic with that possibility in mind there isn't much we can do.

Kimkytaru, I get 571, same as Massimo put in the edit. He didn't explain how he got that instead of the 564 he'd written earlier, but it's because sorc ring is .76. Yellow HP in that gear should be 541, I think.

Thx a lot for all those infos.

Just another quick question, if I want to use Rostrum, do I need to change my Value ? Or will it stay 571 like with or without penitent rope ?