Travoltas Turn to Scientology, Hometown in Trying Times

[Andarvi]

Sounds like I need to issue beatings. Since when can't catholics believe in evolution? D:

Since they are old school catholics who don't know the definition of intelligent design.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Yea, it was knee jerk reaction on my part because I am so sick of fundamentalists attacking evolution based on the argument that "it's just a theory", and there was really no need for the name calling.

Often, as long as your respect their faith, don't tread on their ideals and thoughts, and make sure they know you aren't interested in conversion, they will leave you alone on that front.

If you're talking about reading reports from people who are invested in the war vs creationism and paying it much attention, you're doing yourself a great disservice. It's a truly bullshit war and not worth worrying about (barring when we have a presidential candidate or something who is a creationist, of course.)

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sounds like I need to issue beatings. Since when can't catholics believe in evolution? D:

I learned about evolution in a catholic school, so idfk.

[Seraph]

Your Family still speak in Latin at the dinner table too, facing away from everyone else? >_>;;;

[Tristam]

Yea, it was knee jerk reaction on my part because I am so sick of fundamentalists attacking evolution based on the argument that "it's just a theory", and there was really no need for the name calling.

Yeah, the "just a theory" gambit is a pretty big red flag for the most part, I've heard it a couple times from friends who really don't understand that a scientific theory is more than a hypothesis. Also the strange notion that theorys become laws or whatever.

[Kuya]

I'm not sure, but i think there's confusion with the common meaning of theory, and the meaning alloted to it within the scientific method. What people think theory means, is what a hypothesis actually is within the scientific method.

[0ni0n]

Often, as long as your respect their faith, don't tread on their ideals and thoughts, and make sure they know you aren't interested in conversion, they will leave you alone on that front.

If you're talking about reading reports from people who are invested in the war vs creationism and paying it much attention, you're doing yourself a great disservice. It's a truly bullshit war and not worth worrying about (barring when we have a presidential candidate or something who is a creationist, of course.)

I said I would defend evolution when it's trod on by fundamentalists, I don't knock on people's door every sunday and ask them to believe it. America is filled with non-believers of evolution, one of the cornerstones of modern science (lower than 50%? last time I checked). Your sense of justice by "poking people who deify evolution" is completely misplaced. That, or you are just an attention whore.

Yeah, the "just a theory" gambit is a pretty big red flag for the most part, I've heard it a couple times from friends who really don't understand that a scientific theory is more than a hypothesis. Also the strange notion that theorys become laws or whatever.

I think the difference between a law and a theory is the extent to which people actually believe it. A law is universally accepted, otherwise it is a theory.

[Alleya]

(barring when we have a presidential candidate or something who is a creationist, of course.)

I personally find it extremely troubling that politicians who are obviously too smart to be creationist or religious or even a skeptic have to lie about it in order to be elected. Running for office and saying you're an atheist would be an even bigger scandal than saying you're gay or even Muslim--so maybe one or two might get elected in highly progressive areas, not any more than that.

In short, people who are simultaneously intelligent and honest are more or less bared from holding public office in the US.

[Seraph]

I personally find it extremely troubling that politicians who are obviously too smart to be creationist or religious or even a skeptic have to lie about it in order to be elected. Running for office and saying you're an atheist would be an even bigger scandal than saying you're gay or even Muslim--so maybe one or two might get elected in highly progressive areas, not any more than that.

In short, people who are simultaneously intelligent and honest are more or less bared from holding public office in the US.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa....





Politicians Lie?!?

[Kuya]

Running for office and saying you're an atheist would be an even bigger scandal than saying you're gay or even Muslim

Hmmm.

[0ni0n]

I personally find it extremely troubling that politicians who are obviously too smart to be creationist or religious or even a skeptic have to lie about it in order to be elected. Running for office and saying you're an atheist would be an even bigger scandal than saying you're gay or even Muslim--so maybe one or two might get elected in highly progressive areas, not any more than that.

In short, people who are simultaneously intelligent and honest are more or less bared from holding public office in the US.

It's the American people. Politicians are just doing what they can to get elected. A recent study by the American Sociological Association shows that atheists face the most discrimination in america.

/pardon me, it is stated as "most distrusted" in the article.

Atheists Identified as America’s Most Distrusted Minority,

According to Sociological Study

Washington, DC—American’s increasing acceptance of religious diversity does not extend to those who don’t believe in a god, according to a national survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota’s department of sociology. The study will appear in the April issue of the American Sociological Review.

From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public. “Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years,” says Penny Edgell, associate sociology professor and the study’s lead researcher.

Edgell also argues that today’s atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society. “It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,” says Edgell. Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.

Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting social disorder is behind the findings. “Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good.”

The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to one’s exposure to diversity, education and political orientation—with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

The study is co-authored by assistant professor Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann. It’s the first in a series of national studies conducted the American Mosaic Project, a three-year project funded by the Minneapolis-based David Edelstein Family Foundation that looks at race, religion and cultural diversity in the contemporary United States.

# # #

The American Sociological Review, edited by Jerry A. Jacobs (University of Pennsylvania), is the flagship journal of the American Sociological Association.

The American Sociological Association, established in 1905, is a non-profit membership association dedicated to serving sociologists in their work, advancing sociology as a science and profession, and promoting the contributions and use of sociology to society.

[Tristam]

It's the American people. Politicians are just doing what they can to get elected. A recent study by the American Sociology Association shows that atheists face the most discrimination in america.

/pardon me, it is stated as "most distrusted" in the article.

Yeah I heard about that too, still seems a bit vague, it was a phone survey with the primary questions being something along the line of "do you believe *such and such group* shares a common vision for this country" Or something to that effect, correct?

edit: aha you posted it, disregard then lol.

[0ni0n]

Yeah I heard about that too, still seems a bit vague, it was a phone survey with the primary questions being something along the line of "do you believe *such and such group* shares a common vision for this country" Or something to that effect, correct?

edit: aha you posted it, disregard then lol.

I think it's pretty telling when a presidential candidate will surely lose the election should he or she declare a lack of belief.

The article is actually published in a peer review journal, it carries more or less some weight.

[Kuya]

Yea, i thought that was strange; more discriminated against than gays or Muslims, it makes sense that it was most distrusted. I do wonder though, are enough people even aware, in fact, are the atheists themselves aware, that atheist does not mean irreligious?

“Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good.”

That's strange, considering what capitalist values are.

[Tristam]

I think it's pretty telling when a presidential candidate will surely lose the election should he or she declare a lack of belief.

The article is actually published in a peer review journal, it carries more or less some weight.

Oh yeah I believe theres a public perception against atheists, but I have a hard time believing that we're as hated as communists in the 60s. But then again I do live in a city on the east coast so it's not really an incredibly religious environment. And yeah I think it's crazy that a person's religion factors into their candidacy over, you know, qualifications.

[Saithorx]

Oh lightning bolt, creator of the all things living, how much energy is needed to generate life where no life exists. Is this what happened to form the first thing living? I might be wrong.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good

That's strange, considering what capitalist values are.

The irony was not lost on me.

[Melios]

I personally find it extremely troubling that politicians who are obviously too smart to be creationist or religious or even a skeptic have to lie about it in order to be elected. Running for office and saying you're an atheist would be an even bigger scandal than saying you're gay or even Muslim--so maybe one or two might get elected in highly progressive areas, not any more than that.

In short, people who are simultaneously intelligent and honest are more or less bared from holding public office in the US.

That's the problem with democracy; the ignorant masses have power.

[Tirrock]

See one post below.

[Tirrock]

I could've sworn there was like some OT VI or something like that who actually left the church and was going to give an interview. Saw a trailer for it on YouTube, but I can't remember seeing the whole interview or remembering his name sadly.

This ringing any bells for anyone? I remember it appearing in the thread here back when Anon was first raiding them.

Are you refering to the Jason Beghe interview? He was OT V. Mark Bunker posted a teaser of his interview of him on youtube and his account was banned, as well as Tory's youtube account. (She's a former scientologist that was pretty high up. She had to be rescued by the police when she escaped, if I remember the story right.) They eventually got their accounts restored, but I'm unsure if they ever posted the interview on youtube.

He has the interview up on his website: www.xenutv.com
Interview here

It is very long, but interesting if you're into this. Lots more videos on the above website as well as the restored youtube accounts of Tory and Mark.
Tory
Mark

Edit: Links are all screwed up had to add in tags rather than just copy/paste. And apparently I doubleposted. Oops.