DRK/NIN Tanking...

[MonkeyManIac]

I have a quick question about gear choices and rough idea of it really..
First of the rough idea of it, now I'm 100% sure on hate and that kinda stuff, but as a PLD has its cures, since you're taking and no doubt having to change your weapon, a DRK with -MAYBE- fully merited dark seal(or even without), Pluto's Staff and a good dark magic set, they could pull off some fairly good drains to keep their HP up. and if they get into real trouble and are about to get hit, they can always just dread spikes? I'm not really sure how this works, thats why I'm asking.

As for gear choices, I'm thinking pretty much what PLD uses..
(Okay, really this is lol, I just like how PLD looks so, shield/sword go. but of course, Terra's Staff, or even a Scythe to melee for hate~)

Hauteclaire/Koenig Shield/Lamian Kaman(PLUS ONE To keep khalil happy.)
Walahra Turban/Ritter(Parade for idle~?)/Ethereal/Loquac.
Hydra Haubert/Homam hands/Sattva/DefendingRing
Cerb(+1?)/Swift(Velo? trance for abilities and when capped on hate.)/Homam legs/Homam feet

Obviously swap haute for Terra's staff because DRK has 0 shield skill(.. well, 8.. merits go) or could keep the Hauteclaire on for DD? with capped sword merits it has to do something.. maybe lol even just to get tp to bust off a soul eater'd vorpal in guillo setup? I know its no PLD when you have it geared.. but, worth a try.. why not. <_< can use the exact same fire resist gear as PLD anyway.. ._.;

critiques on gear/survivability of it is welcome, so please go for it.

inb4 pldonry loldrk ect.
and also *flame proof suitplz*

[WraithLakshmi]

You would use basically the same gear a pld does. I know a few drk's who have had some success tanking, but when it comes down to it, they don't have the survivability of a paladin. Those same drk's usually end up leveling paladin, and then you never see them tanking on drk again. If your shell is this hardup on tanks, I would suggest just leveling paladin instead. Drk is a superb melee DD, and a mediocre tank.

[MonkeyManIac]

You would use basically the same gear a pld does. I know a few drk's who have had some success tanking, but when it comes down to it, they don't have the survivability of a paladin. Those same drk's usually end up leveling paladin, and then you never see them tanking on drk again. If your shell is this hardup on tanks, I would suggest just leveling paladin instead. Drk is a superb melee DD, and a mediocre tank.

Yeah thats what I kinda thought, I already have pld leveled and have all of the gear listed above except hydra body (meh, valor lol) and homam legs (wlegs.. 0/51, never actually seen them drop, ever) I just thought it would be a novel thing to do rather tankin' on PLD all the time. hah. xD

[Aragon of Odin]

I disagree, I've seen some great DRKs tank stuff and they gear nowhere how you would have done it. One of the major parts about them being able to hold hate is them being able to deal damage in order to maintain hate. A big part of the DRKs I've seen tank stuff is the fact that they have Apoc as well, which totally changes what the job can do.

Personally I think there's things they shouldn't attemp to tank, as some LS's fight mobs differently, my LS does not throw DD's at stuff as Khim/Tia so I think in that situation a DRK wouldn't be able to hold hate very well. For shit like Nid/Faf/Aspi/Cerb, mobs where we have no problems throwing melee at it, I think they could do a great job as long as they could output good melee dmg.

[MonkeyManIac]

I disagree, I've seen some great DRKs tank stuff and they gear nowhere how you would have done it. One of the major parts about them being able to hold hate is them being able to deal damage in order to maintain hate. A big part of the DRKs I've seen tank stuff is the fact that they have Apoc as well, which totally changes what the job can do.

Personally I think there's things they shouldn't attemp to tank, as some LS's fight mobs differently, my LS does not throw DD's at stuff as Khim/Tia so I think in that situation a DRK wouldn't be able to hold hate very well. For shit like Nid/Faf/Aspi/Cerb, mobs where we have no problems throwing melee at it, I think they could do a great job as long as they could output good melee dmg.

Hm.. this is reassuring..
I won't have an apoc.. but I can melee with my haute... lawl, or Death Scythe+1/Tred.

Well I was just wondering really how badly it'd get eaten. I'd have no problem with Tia as it can use same fire resist as my pld and as far as hate goes, I'll have a ton of stuff for it... Khim was kinda the one I was worried about, normally I melee him on PLD and such, with double march and haste I attack pretty darn fast so.. I really dunno about this but maybe its the same tp build as a drk with a scythe.. if not, gogo haute? Khim was really the only thing that I could have issues with, as no stun, and possibly TP spam... Defending ring can only absorb so much dmg before I die.

[Corruption]

I have a quick question about gear choices and rough idea of it really..
First of the rough idea of it, now I'm 100% sure on hate and that kinda stuff, but as a PLD has its cures, since you're taking and no doubt having to change your weapon, a DRK with -MAYBE- fully merited dark seal(or even without), Pluto's Staff and a good dark magic set, they could pull off some fairly good drains to keep their HP up. and if they get into real trouble and are about to get hit, they can always just dread spikes? I'm not really sure how this works, thats why I'm asking.

As for gear choices, I'm thinking pretty much what PLD uses..
(Okay, really this is lol, I just like how PLD looks so, shield/sword go. but of course, Terra's Staff, or even a Scythe to melee for hate~)

Hauteclaire/Koenig Shield/Lamian Kaman(PLUS ONE To keep khalil happy.)
Walahra Turban/Ritter(Parade for idle~?)/Ethereal/Loquac.
Hydra Haubert/Homam hands/Sattva/DefendingRing
Cerb(+1?)/Swift(Velo? trance for abilities and when capped on hate.)/Homam legs/Homam feet

Obviously swap haute for Terra's staff because DRK has 0 shield skill(.. well, 8.. merits go) or could keep the Hauteclaire on for DD? with capped sword merits it has to do something.. maybe lol even just to get tp to bust off a soul eater'd vorpal in guillo setup? I know its no PLD when you have it geared.. but, worth a try.. why not. <_< can use the exact same fire resist gear as PLD anyway.. ._.;

critiques on gear/survivability of it is welcome, so please go for it.

inb4 pldonry loldrk ect.
and also *flame proof suitplz*

Well in my honest opinion I always used to get pissed off in parties when I would see DRKs go in there /war, and do shit like Soul Eater, Last Resort, Berserk, WS for major dmg than get killed in 1-2 shots because they couldn't lose hate even to a PLD... I always thought that was pure retardation at its best so I always thought /NIN would be very cool for survival, and controlling hate in the pt.

For End-Game, I could definitely see an Apoc DRK tanking or maybe even a Rune Chopper DRK with merited Great Axe and as much Haste+% gear and STR/DEX+ (a.k.a Hecatomb Set) for WS. I mean as long as their timing is good why not?

P.S Just as a little nod to nostalgia Cecil was an awesome tank as a Dark Knight in FFIV but then became a true tank as Paladin lol Still though, represent and be a hardcore DRK tank ftw!

[Grey Jorildyn]

DRK/NIN really excels in the small-man situation. My linkshell has used DRK/NIN tank on Cerberus, Khimaira as well (but to a lesser extent). They are great on any mob you can afford to TP and just damage deal to death. They're also ideal for small-man KS99 Wyrm. Paladin is sorta useless there when using less than ten.

You could gear DRK/NIN exactly like PLD tank if you really wanted, but dealing damage is going to be the ideal path to tank if you can afford to do it. For more reserved mobs. If you think of Stun like a 4th shadow, you can imagine DRK/NIN is just an improved version of NIN/DRK with less DR gear and higher damage output.

[The Stig]

DRK/NIN really excels in the small-man situation. My linkshell has used DRK/NIN tank on Cerberus, Khimaira as well (but to a lesser extent). They are great on any mob you can afford to TP and just damage deal to death. They're also ideal for small-man KS99 Wyrm. Paladin is sorta useless there when using less than ten.

You could gear DRK/NIN exactly like PLD tank if you really wanted, but dealing damage is going to be the ideal path to tank if you can afford to do it. For more reserved mobs. If you think of Stun like a 4th shadow, you can imagine DRK/NIN is just an improved version of NIN/DRK with less DR gear and higher damage output.

How does Dread Spikes do against the stronger mobs, i.e. Wyrm, Cerb/Khim ? Any particular resistance? Because I was thinking with full haste on you could use Dread Spikes as an extra 2 shadows for normal melee hits, assuming it hits you for 400~ per hit and ther DRK has 1600~ HP

[Gustave]

I've been wanting to try this on a few things. After looking over the gear options most of it is drk and pld equipable so I've started leveling pld also. Dread Spikes can help damage output in lower man fights. I've kited a few znm's and stuff using dread spikes when its ready for extra damage. I think have around 1900 max hp no food in my dread spikes macro to increased the total damage absorbed (Go Go Hasso desperate blows in meripo). Does anyone know if Ouryu resist dread spikes and/or the amount of resistance?

[Grey Jorildyn]

How does Dread Spikes do against the stronger mobs, i.e. Wyrm, Cerb/Khim ? Any particular resistance? Because I was thinking with full haste on you could use Dread Spikes as an extra 2 shadows for normal melee hits, assuming it hits you for 400~ per hit and ther DRK has 1600~ HP

I know it isn't resisted on Wyrm (I've seen it drain back 448 damage on a hit). I don't recall Cerb/Khim but you can bet they probably are to some degree. Dread Spikes unfortunately give you the HP back but are not true shadows in the sense that if you get hit while casting, your spell will get interrupted.

[Gustave]

Khim does resist. I think it was 50% but it could have been more/less. Fafnir/Nid I have not seen resist but I'd bet during his 2hr mode he would. Also dread spikes will not save you from ws's :/

[Neoex]

DRK/NIN imo is very similar to its inverse NIN/DRK. with 1 less shadow, more MP and a hell of a lot more HATE tools. Co-tanking something and having the ability to hold shadows and spam spells, your gonna be hard pressed to pull it of a DRK/NIN on a JoL or Tiamat type mob

[Zosi]

For "hard" stuff to tank, Merona pretty much nailed it, it's nin/drk with one less shadow, no Arhat's and a bigger weapon. Someone on Lakshmi plays with it (or used to) pretty often; I've seen him tank Tiamat and most of the stuff mentioned, and he does alright. Definitely much less damage mitigation than PLD or NIN, though, so I can't say I'd recommend it over a decent pld/nin for normal situations. It has a few unique features, I'd imagine he'd have no problem getting hate back after a roar, and the damage is good. I don't know about using Hauteclaire, I'd think that normal 2h weapons would be much better damage, and Earth Staff would be much better damage mitigation for the mobs that really need it. You *aren't* going to get any kind of reliable shield blocks on HNMs with drk/nin, even with capped/meritted skill, and you can't cast through them without Shield Mastery anyways.

As for lower level exp (which is completely orthagonal to the actual topic of the thread), any decently-geared DRK is going to have hate problems whether they're trying to be suicidal or not. However, the lack of Ni and haste gear pre-70s pretty much guarantees that a drk/nin isn't going to be a very good "main tank" in the sense that PLD or NIN can be in lower level exp. They can hold hate, but their damage mitigation runs out after the preloaded Ichi and first recast. They have neither the crazy shield blocks of PLD (even if using sword/shield) or the ass-saving evasion of pre-37 NIN, they just have hate tools and Ichi. Once NIN gets Ni and PLD gets Flash, they really should only be tanking in "tankless" meleeburn parties or after a WS or series of lucky crits.

[The Stig]

Well this might finally have a use...!

[Cloudius]

You *aren't* going to get any kind of reliable shield blocks on HNMs with drk/nin, even with capped/meritted skill, and you can't cast through them without Shield Mastery anyway

DRK doesn't have shield skill, even tho we can use the bestest shields (duh).

Anyway, with Apoc I can easily tank the smaller events (Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul). It goes smooth, fast, and probably better than a normal tank. As for NMs I've never tried any big stuff, but for that you need a LS that is willing to try in the 1st place, but I've done sky triggers, Roc/Sim, and KA(solol even).

Basically, it would work, but you need your LS' willingness and support.

[Grey Jorildyn]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/c/c2/Faucheuse.JPG

Well this might finally have a use...!

As long as you're not using the Set!

[The Stig]

Ya I was about to say, don't equip the corresponding earring.

With that at least you won't need to use Hauteclaire + additional gear to land hits in order to deal (a bit) of damage to keep hate.

[Vedder]

I've co-tanked Hakutaku as DRK/NIN before for the lulz, but never really thought about doing anything bigger. As been stated, it's sorta like NIN/DRK with less room for error... or the need for more attentive healers.

[Thorny]

tanked byakko on it for the lulz, sleep 2 and parade gorget are nice but nin/drk is better for anything a non-apoc drk/nin can tank.. the novelty and tiny hate boost aren't worth losing -35% phys dmg(30 if you use that scythe)

[Bladewind]

I'm leveling DRK currently, in the hopes of replacing my Pld for certain events, T4 ZNM comes to mind as i don't do HNM. I'm pretty confident about DRK being just as effective as PLD, while being able to do constant damage (although with atonement pld isn't as useless as it used to be). The only thing i can't think of a replacement for is a shield set, for casting Ichi, would stacking parrying be helpful? or just rely on stun lasting long enough to cast utsu?