Puppetmaster Parse

[The Stig]

hahaha I got bored so I visited FFXI-Online at work and found the exact same post:

Puppetmaster Parse - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

The reactions there are simply staggering compared to here.

I wonder if it's on alla as well ...

*goes and looks*

[Meian]

hahaha I got bored so I visited FFXI-Online at work and found the exact same post:

Puppetmaster Parse - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

The reactions there are simply staggering compared to here.

I wonder if it's on alla as well ...

*goes and looks*

Also posted on KI

Sigh, these eccentric people who post like this >> (the op that is)

[Kumbai]

hahaha I got bored so I visited FFXI-Online at work and found the exact same post:

Puppetmaster Parse - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

The reactions there are simply staggering compared to here.

I wonder if it's on alla as well ...

*goes and looks*

Also posted on KI

Sigh, these eccentric people who post like this >> (the op that is)

It's obvious where all the cool, ungimp kids hang out. :3

[The Stig]

oh KI too? I wonder what kinda responses it's getting there... gonna go look! thanks!

EDIT: Not as much but it seems there is no response on either thread. Not on Alla (yet?) as I had a look. Looks like either he's asleep or his boner has shrunk into nothing.

[Ilian]

Yes pchan, as a very well geared pup can you please help us out with a parse please?

[Zirk]

I recall something like 28.9k/h being obtained with 2 bards, a cor, 3 relic DD's, with Corsairs roll on. or something like that. With outside healing.

Didn't Rukenshin do that?


Can anyone dig that up? I want it for my Signature. >.>;

I exclusively merit at colibri camp, I'm still of the opinion it is the best merit camp in the game. With completely empty top and bottom colibri tiers, and a corsair in the party, you are guarenteed 30k/h no problem as long as everyone in the party is decent (i.e. everyone is from your linkshell type of thing). Please note that any exp/hr values I give here are based on expwatch, at least 30 minutes into the party once we get a rhythem going, no exp bands.

Best party I ever had a colibri was mnk/war, drg/war, mandau thf/nin, brd/nin, cor/whm, rdm/whm, no outside healing of any kind, this was a consistent 34-35k/h (right after a colibri kill, expwatch would read just above 35k/h, and just before a kill it would be around 34k/h). This fell to 31-32k/h when a "standard" merit party moved into lower camp and we had to fight more wivres. This was not a picking and choosing 10 minute span where we were on our game and just broke 34-35k/h for a second, expwatch never read below 34k/h until the other party started killing. The drg won the parse, so relic's not even needed to achieve this.

I personally know Rukenshin always favours mamool ja staging point, so I'm guessing the times he's tried colibri camp his pullers weren't very familiar with it and maybe they were fighting way more wivres than needed, they almost more than likely didn't have both tiers completely open to them, as stated above, 30k/h is a no brainer with empty colibri and a corsair.

[ringthree]

hahaha I got bored so I visited FFXI-Online at work and found the exact same post:

Puppetmaster Parse - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

The reactions there are simply staggering compared to here.

I wonder if it's on alla as well ...

*goes and looks*

Nah, it's not that bad. Most of the people that posted there were a little more... subtle than here, but most question the results in general. Unlike here though, there are a few people that actually praised them. No one praised them here.

[Darwinion]

I couldn't agree more~ But it's a vicious cycle. The good DD's won't party with the less accepted jobs (generally), so we end up with ones like this.

^ This. Quoted for truth.

I sometimes like to bust out my BST for some fun... don't get to use it very often.

I don't do pickup meripos anymore really. It's 99% LS only unless I get an invite from a player I kinda know of. In my LS parties they still whine if I say I wanna come BST, even though I know we'll get great chains. OK I've no excuse really now 'cos I have WAR 75 and meriting that up at the moment. But still... the point stands about lesser DD jobs. They can't get parties really and so have to play with gimp pick-ups. Hence the OP.

[Kimkytaru]

parse dont mean anything unless :

You tell everyone in pt before it start you're parsing and that people never go afk during a fight.

Usually in the merit pt I go there is always people afking, or suddently you see when you switch target that they took 10-20 more seconds than you go switch target etc.. or choose to ws at 200 tp for some reasons you dont know. For all those reasons I wont ever base my opinion of a job on a random parse posted on forum.

[WraithLakshmi]

Usually in the merit pt I go there is always people afking, or suddently you see when you switch target that they took 10-20 more seconds than you go switch target etc.. or choose to ws at 200 tp for some reasons you dont know. For all those reasons I wont ever base my opinion of a job on a random parse posted on forum.

A parse doesn't just show how good a job is, it shows the skill of the player. Things like positioning yourself for autotarget or more efficient TP usage are what can separate an elite player from a good one.

On the topic of merit spots, I would agree that if top and bottom birds are both open, it's the best merit spot. However, if you have some serious DD power, mamool ja can beat just one open floor of lolibri. I had a party there once with an apoc DRK, me on sam, and a war. We were killing the mamool so fast because the drk and I were doing catastrophie > gekko for darkness SC's that we were losing chain because repops weren't fast enough. You really need a relic or two there for it to challenge birds, though.

[Arthars]

I'm going to have to go with the old, tired, and repeated saying.

Pics Or It Didn't Happen.

And no, Annivarsary band doesn't count.

1st pic: starting merits
2nd pic: after first flow and time
3rd pic: after afking a while, 15 mins or so to delvl mule and have some dinner
4th pic: after 2nd flow and ending results

total: 37k XP in 1 hour

didnt go 40k this round because theres a 5th person in 2nd flow, resulting in lesser XP, and cor roll isnt good :\ (1st flow rolled 11, 2nd rolled 7 only)

can go up to 60k XP per hour if my friend is on(he got 2nd delvling mule)

[ringthree]

A parse doesn't just show how good a job is, it shows the skill of the player. Things like positioning yourself for autotarget or more efficient TP usage are what can separate an elite player from a good one.

I used to think that, but in the end I don't think the ability to not use the bathroom in a 4 hour merit party makes you an elite player over a good one. I understand the concept that alignment, TP usage and other things of the sort do make for more XP, but that is about attentiveness, not about player quality really.

Parses are best used for gauging your own ability and not for comparing yourself to other people. At some point we are playing at game, and even the most attentive "elite" player can be momentarily distracted and decrease their "skill" in an XP party. Before I ever even considered to start parsing I was always lining up for autotarget and switching target before the mob died if I could. This had nothing to do with being elite, it actually had to do with being lazy. It was faster for me to autotarget or switch targets than to disengage, retarget and then re-engage. Pure laziness.

It is also really easy to "cheat" on parses. If you are using a single hit WS you can waste a large amount of your damage when the mob is at low HP, and then it makes sense to always WS immediately. If you are using a multi-hit WS then it makes sense, for parse numbers, to hold your TP to the next mob if your current mob is at low HP. In both cases this can cause inefficiencies in XP/hour that would be rewarded on the parse results. Other ways that can effect the results include song manipulation, Haste order, food selection, etc.

People worry WAY too much about comparative parsing and the person that posted the original parse is the exact proof of this. They are using a comparative parse to prove that they are better than other jobs or players, which actually doesn't prove much at all. It would be much better to look at the raw numbers for yourself, like individual hit damage, WS damage, accuracy, Crit hit rate, etc. and try to discern how to improve your character with that information.

To me, "elite" play is determined on many levels; quality and attentiveness in XP parties is just one small factor. The ability to know how to do a variety of different events on a variety of different jobs, understanding fight mechanics, understanding how to properly gear yourself and general preparedness are all far more important factors for me in determining quality of play.

[orson]

Did the other jobs even know they were being parsed? Usually if tell people I'm parsing they tend to try a lot harder A.K.A. engage faster, weaponskill more, etc. which can make a huge difference in damage. As said before that War had terrible gear choices it's like he was sporting town gear in a merit party.

[Ahlah]

This thread reminds me of the similar results posted on Alla BST forum years ago, some dodgy parse results which showed a maneater/Temp axe BST + Lars outparsed Ridill WAR. And has been regarded as the "solid proof" of how BST top the DD job list.

I am not surprised the OP get credits and compliments for proving PUP "outperform" standard DD jobs if he/she posts the same information on Alla PUP forum, and anyone who try to give impartial comment will get rated down. As you can see one of the Alla regulars is already making effort to defend the OP in this forum.

I can never understand the reason why these ppl are so eager to defend BST and PUP. SE will not change a job unless players actually demand adjustment. Allakhazam, being a premier site, has BST community who believe they will outparse any melee and the only reason ppl don't appreciate it is because they don't understand the job. SE see no reason to adjust BST since they already claim that true BST should never participate in endgame events and merit party.

BG should have its own job forums.

[Rhinox]

won't happen last time it was being considered people were crying about it.

This isn't alla etc.

[Lishje]

hahahahah! Sorry Arthars I didn't mean yours ^_~

I know about the Astral flow instant level up thing at lower levels with all the summoners o: It's pretty sweet, I watched a level sync party in Bubrimbu gain like 6 levels instantly.

[evilpaul]

All I see is a subpar pup outdding subpar melees. I mean full AF2 is not exactly good gear. Imagine a MNK in full palhuwan, life belt and turban. Would you call it "somewhat well-geared monk ?".

Full Usukane isn't exactly easy to get. There's some stuff he could easily obtain or use that's better for TP (W.turban, PCC, Swift Belt), but most of the Pantin stuff is pretty good compared to the non-Usukane alternatives.

[Arthars]

oh XD i thought u meant me!!!w

[ubermonkey]

Wasn't the extreme limit to Greater colibri without Corsair's roll marked at like 24k an hour or something anyways?

IME it's ~26k if you don't kill wivre with top and bottom free. Wivre push it to 29-30k.

This is 3 DD cor brd rdm or whm/sch, no relics or outside healing. We could probably have killed faster and pushed it above 30k.

Personally I find it tougher to get over 25k at mamool, just because an unlucky fang rush can really ruin your day. Also DD's can't ride hasso quite as hard.

[Riel]

This thread reminds me of the similar results posted on Alla BST forum years ago, some dodgy parse results which showed a maneater/Temp axe BST + Lars outparsed Ridill WAR. And has been regarded as the "solid proof" of how BST top the DD job list.

I am not surprised the OP get credits and compliments for proving PUP outperform standard DD jobs if he/she posts the same information on Alla PUP forum, and anyone who try to give impartial comment will get rated down. As you can see one of the Alla regulars is already making effort to defend the OP in this forum.

I can never understand the reason why these ppl are so eager to defend BST and PUP. SE will not change a job unless players actually demand adjustment. Allakhazam, being a premier site, has BST community who believe they will outparse any melee and the only reason ppl don't appreciate it is because they don't understand the job. SE see no reason to adjust BST since they already claim that true BST should never participate in endgame events and merit party.

BG should have its own job forums.

Why do you continually bash BST using this example in these forums? I have outparsed plenty of other DD jobs on Man/Temp. BST, to the point where I'm tired of hearing this nonsense. Yes, BST can't fuck with the WS output of other jobs. Can they fuck with the DoT and parse them in merits? Of course. DD jobs are pretty well balanced in regard to DoT.

The fact is that folks have decided which jobs are real DD based primarily on WS damage and other spike damage beneficial in certain endgame situations rather than based on DoT. Further, pet jobs in general get a bad rap because even folks who do pay attention to DoT tend to underestimate the contributions of the pet to the job's damage.

So, frustrated players who don't feel like playing whatever job the masses have decided is a DD this week often try to post parses to convince the masses that yes, their perfectly balanced and effective job can perform on par or above the level required by average pickup merit groups. This is done in the hopes that next time they might be able to merit with better than average groups in which they can clearly perform but are constantly denied access to.

Due to the small sample size and the gimpness of players involved, the OP here, like the alla post you're referring to, make convenient straw men, but that doesn't matter--like others have said--because less popular jobs can outparse real DD time and time again and it won't make them any more popular in itself: parse results can easily be rationalized into oblivion, as evidenced repeatedly in these and other forums.

Basically: if people don't want to believe something, they're not going to no matter how many times it's proven. However, just because the argument proposed by the OP is unpopular and in this case far from empirically supported in his post, it does not follow that the argument is entirely invalid; it is simply poorly represented, and ultimately there is no good way to present this argument.