Bart Police shooting of a young man named Oscar Grant in Oakland (YouTube'd)

[melbufrauma]

It aint gonna happen, irregardless

[jmc]

Lets pause for a minute, we know that its 2am new years, this is a group of young men who were accused of fighting on the train, but there is no evidence of that. It's new years, they probably had drinks, there are a lot of emotions flying around. A cop slams you on your stomach your gonna resist a bit, its a reflex, and the alcohol if there was any, might make him more resistant, but even so, he had one cop on his neck, another standing over him, and officer Mehserle trying to cuff him, or adjusting the cuffs or something, he had 2 cops directly working on him, and another standing over him watching the situation. There was absolutely no reason for him to reach for his taser, in fact in this video, you can see that Grant was cuffed before he was shot ( YouTube - Studying The Taser's Role In The Bart Shooting ). If he wasn't why were they taken off, to be put back on again, it doesn't make sense.

A taser is a device used for 2 main reasons.

1) For a officer to safely defuse a situation, in which harm can be caused to the suspect..a innocent bystander..or to a officer.

2) For individuals to comply with officer orders, if the officer feels the suspect can become harmful to himself or another officer.

Drinks or not, he resisted arrest. If your on the ground, a officer is sitting on top of you and you won't put your hands behind your back willingly. Guess what? Its resisting arrest, and failure to comply with a order from a officer.

You can go off saying that, he was in no means to get up and he was under officers control. However, from my experience unless the suspect is in cuffs/calm/in a transport he is not under officers control. Ive seen individuals get up, from 3 officers trying to handcuff him (this person might not have been that strong, but liquor works wonders for stuff like this) ive also seen officers pinning someone to the ground, only for said suspect being able to grab a officers firearm.


Anyways, just because it doesn't clearly show him resisting from a distance DOES NOT mean he wasn't resisting. You were not there, and neither were I....the only thing we have to go on is a video from a distance, obscured by multiple officers....and what the media tells us.

[Elvis]

I agree with the thrust of your argument but we need to ask whether the use of a taser was necessary to subdue him further under the circumstances.

Face-down on the ground. Surrounded by officers. Possibly handcuffed. Not moving violently (from when he was on the ground). I think it's entirely plausible that a lawyer could build the case that the use of the taser - under these circumstances - was unnecessary.

[Correction]

It aint gonna happen, irregardless

http://i42.tinypic.com/znom78.gif

[jmc]

I agree with the thrust of your argument but we need to ask whether the use of a taser was necessary to subdue him further under the circumstances.

Face-down on the ground. Surrounded by officers. Possibly handcuffed. Not moving violently (from when he was on the ground). I think it's entirely plausible that a lawyer could build the case that the use of the taser - under these circumstances - was unnecessary.

That's why I believe a manslaughter charge would stick.

For the authorized use of the taser, in most departments if someone simply resists with officers the use of a taser is approved by department standards to fight off possible injury to the suspect or a officer. I can't say for sure the actual standards on the subject, because few departments use them here.

Yet, like you said... there were multiple officers there, more than enough to subdue a person if need be. However, those resources of having so many officers was wasted because of the people looking on who wanted to become hostile towards the police. So now instead of having to worry about those suspects fighting, they have to worry some drunk yahoo doesn't try to assault one of them with their back turned.

I still personally don't think the taser was needed (if he was even thinking of using his taser). I was just throwing out my experience of people being able to injure officers even in a situation like this, to kind of get a understanding on what this guy would be possibly thinking when he did this.


(Also, 2 year veteran status is just something said by the media..... but 2 years on the job, is not a rookie status)

[archibaldcrane]

I think that tasing someone in handcuffs, in any circumstance, is fucking bullshit and should lead to disciplinary action for the officer. I understand that there are procedures for use of force, and I think that one of the procedures should be that if a suspect is cuffed, you can't tase them period.

If that's not part of the taser training, that's also fucking bullshit. It's not like cops weren't dealing with cuffed suspects effectively before 10 years ago. Tasers should be used to subdue, not to make people compliant. If you're already in cuffs, you're effectively subdued -enough-, whether you are flailing your legs around or not. Tasers aren't necessary in that circumstance.

[Jer]

It's not like cops weren't dealing with cuffed suspects effectively before 10 years ago. Tasers should be used to subdue, not to make people compliant. If you're already in cuffs, you're effectively subdued -enough-, whether you are flailing your legs around or not. Tasers aren't necessary in that circumstance.

That's one of the biggest problems :s There are too many of them who are quick to use unnecessary force when it is not warranted. Hell, I remember a couple years ago when there was a teenager walking up and down the streets with a Bible and yelling about Jesus. Officers told him to stop, he didn't, so they stunned him twice and he died. (Granted, I find those people annoying too, yet I can't go out and stun them to death.) White folk still get off easier than blacks though. There was that guy last year in Louisiana who was in handcuffs, not resisting, and pleading for officers to stop when he was tasered nine fucking times and died.

[aurik]

irregardless - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

It's a word.

[Kuya]

The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

lol

[Elvis]

The dictionary has spoken.

[Yuri-G]

According to dictionary.com,

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing.

As I said, it doesn't exist in formal English, it's no better than gonna or ain't. I never said it wasn't a word. Not that your post was aimed at me, of course

[Mizango]

Only one man can settle this, where is the self proclaimed "linguistics master" of BG? I forgot his name but he's the guy that said he wrote for some shitty paper chain or something?

brb lightin my fail signal per say.....

[Yuri-G]

Only one man can settle this, where is the self proclaimed "linguistics master" of BG? I forgot his name but he's the guy that said he wrote for some shitty paper chain or something?

brb lightin my fail signal per say.....

>_>

<_<

>_>

[Akiyama]

Proves that Oakland is not only useless as a sports city, but as a city in general.

[Jotaru]

brb lightin my fail signal per say.....

More frustrating than people spelling this incorrectly is the rampant usage of the term in a completely wrong way. It means 'by itself', 'in itself', etc... yet I've seen people use it to mean thousands of different things, lol.

[Yuri-G]

Proves that Oakland is not only useless as a sports city, but as a city in general.

Ha, when my friend was showing me around the bay area giving me tips on where to live, we walked around downtown Oakland a little and he said "Yeah... Um... I'm not sure why I'm showing you this, you really don't want to live here."

[Akiyama]

Couldn't agree more. It's a cesspool.

[tyven]

which city is worse oakland or baltimore? i can't think of a city in the U.S. as shitty as those two

[Elvis]

Chillicothe, Ohio.

[Abandon]

Haha, Baltimore rocks. Buddy of mine got drunk at Iguana Cantina, pissed on the security guys outside from the parking garage, then got in a fight once inside again, carried out by 4 bouncers, and ended up maced by 2 cops after flooring the first 2 that reached him.

No charges were brought, haha.