Bart Police shooting of a young man named Oscar Grant in Oakland (YouTube'd)

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Probably won't have to suck it to get in since he greased a black guy.

Your post deserves a reply along those lines cause that's exactly how you sound.

You missed my point entirely and I even said I didn't believe he wasn't guilty. I even commented a tiny bit about the science of the concept of survival stress and asked to look at it from YOUR OWN point of view, not even at the cops point of view.

Your saying he planned this and that he was responsible and was abusing his power, yet a jury of people just like you with possibly the same opinions as you were convinced it was an accident and not homicide. What's the matter? Hate the police? Your opinion isn't validated either just because your pissed a cop "got away with murder" and not refuting any evidence that it was a homicide other than "Cops always abuse their power!".

Also, don't believe for a second that I was using his criminal history as an excuse for them to kill him. I was referring to the meatheads who were panning this guy out to be the best damn guy in the world because he was fun loving and loved his family. That is, if it wasn't for the extensive criminal history that would PROVE otherwise. The only reason they doctored his life up was to gain sympathy from the black community so that funds and legal aid could slander the cops name and influence the juries decision. Thankfully the shit didn't work and they should just shut the fuck up and stop with the absurd death threats such as "We're going to smash your babies head on a curb just like you smashed our black brothers heads back in the 60's." Want to hate someone? Hate those assholes for even suggesting something so heinous that hell would be too good a place for their asses.

Yeah, a mostly white jury was convinced it wasn't murder.

You must feel guilty or something because I never said all cops are bad, I said there are too many cops that abuse their power. You conveniently didn't address the whole issue of how he unlatched the safety on his piece when he accidentally shot a black man.

Of course it's terrible his family is being threatened nobody has refuted that, so stop using it as a straw man to dance around points being made that work against your argument.

Police should be held to a much higher standard than citizens in cases like this. They go through all of this training on my dime and they're meant to protect us, not bully us. Manslaughter shouldn't have even been on the table, any time a police officer shoots an unarmed citizen posing no threat they should get the death penalty. Just because you want to paint the victim in the nigger light to justify a white cops action doesn't make that pill any easier to swallow.

[Cleverness]

Probably won't have to suck it to get in since he greased a black guy.

Your post deserves a reply along those lines cause that's exactly how you sound.

You missed my point entirely and I even said I didn't believe he wasn't guilty. I even commented a tiny bit about the science of the concept of survival stress and asked to look at it from YOUR OWN point of view, not even at the cops point of view.

Your saying he planned this and that he was responsible and was abusing his power, yet a jury of people just like you with possibly the same opinions as you were convinced it was an accident and not homicide. What's the matter? Hate the police? Your opinion isn't validated either just because your pissed a cop "got away with murder" and not refuting any evidence that it was a homicide other than "Cops always abuse their power!".

Also, don't believe for a second that I was using his criminal history as an excuse for them to kill him. I was referring to the meatheads who were panning this guy out to be the best damn guy in the world because he was fun loving and loved his family. That is, if it wasn't for the extensive criminal history that would PROVE otherwise. The only reason they doctored his life up was to gain sympathy from the black community so that funds and legal aid could slander the cops name and influence the juries decision. Thankfully the shit didn't work and they should just shut the fuck up and stop with the absurd death threats such as "We're going to smash your babies head on a curb just like you smashed our black brothers heads back in the 60's." Want to hate someone? Hate those assholes for even suggesting something so heinous that hell would be too good a place for their asses.

Why does it even matter if people are panning him as a saint? You're just as bad as the people you're complaining about by focusing on the shit that doesn't matter; the officer shot a man who was unable to defend himself. End of story. Accident or not, that is a fucking fact and the main reason he didn't get murder was it was obvious the second it happened he knew what he had done and all the video of the event helped depict the events leading up to shooting to support that. Not to mention he was a cop, if he wasn't he would have definitely gotten murder.

[Khajit]

Was that cop's lawyer the same one or an associate of the lawyer that got R kelly to stay out of jail?
They both got thier clients off scott free despite there being unedited videotape evidence to the contrary distributed worldwide.

[Cleverness]

R Kelly was innocent, if she didn't move out of the way she wanted to get pissed on.

[Khajit]

Oscar should have moved out the damn way if he didnt want to get shot. Bringing his ass into a warzone like that...

[Nephlite]

Yeah, a mostly white jury was convinced it wasn't murder.

Predictable response. Your point is moot first because you don't know if the jury was white/black/Asian/purple/or Hispanic, and just assumed they're all white because you heard it in a movie and it's the first thing any self-absorbed black person would say when they don't have anything else to say.

You must feel guilty or something because I never said all cops are bad, I said there are too many cops that abuse their power.

I actually agree that too many cops abuse their power. Things are done about this. To make matters worse, the most notorious string of corrupted cops were in my very same police force (D.C.) and were known as The Dirty Dozen. They ran assassination missions, trafficked drugs all up and down the East Coast, killed hundreds of people, and even killed children. Oh did I mention all twelve of them were black? They were brothers too. 8 of them were killed in a raid and 4 of them were executed for their crimes.

You conveniently didn't address the whole issue of how he unlatched the safety on his piece when he accidentally shot a black man.

Conveniently didn't tell you that the standard issue most used in America is the Glock 19 and it doesn't have a safety feature as you described. Thought you knew, sorry. The safety features of any Glock are settings that are designed to prevent accidental discharge, not from discharging directly (as the officer did). If you were well trained to fire the weapon, it wouldn't even feel like a safety was ever present. Even if there was, once the officers Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activated due to a high stress situation, all he would rely on is stimulus response training (doing one predetermined motion over and over and over again until he obtains muscle memory of the movement so he does it automatically without thinking). A Safety mechanism in that case would be moot as it would be unlocked in one fluid motion without thinking cause that's how he is trained, not how he thinks.

No present safety regulations are in place for Tasers with the exception of maybe 25% of them having a camera installed in the barrel for recording the incident. And yes, they do feel like a gun when you hold them in your hand and no they don't usually come with features that distinguish them from a gun. Even if they did, an SNS activation can cause people to see things differently than they appear. In no way am I justifying the actions of the officer, i'm just giving some theories as to why it happened.

Of course it's terrible his family is being threatened nobody has refuted that, so stop using it as a straw man to dance around points being made that work against your argument.

Police should be held to a much higher standard than citizens in cases like this. They go through all of this training on my dime and they're meant to protect us, not bully us. Manslaughter shouldn't have even been on the table, any time a police officer shoots an unarmed citizen posing no threat they should get the death penalty. Just because you want to paint the victim in the nigger light to justify a white cops action doesn't make that pill any easier to swallow.

Again, I never meant to justify his actions of killing someone by beating this horse. I was merely stating I was pissed off at all the threats simply because a white man killed a black man. Racism will never die as long as people keep this course of thinking. It could have been a Chinese man but would it have gained more publicity or media? Hell no. It only gained steam because people like you keep bringing up stuff that happened 300 years before I was born.

Edit:

Why does it even matter if people are panning him as a saint? You're just as bad as the people you're complaining about by focusing on the shit that doesn't matter; the officer shot a man who was unable to defend himself. End of story. Accident or not, that is a fucking fact and the main reason he didn't get murder was it was obvious the second it happened he knew what he had done and all the video of the event helped depict the events leading up to shooting to support that. Not to mention he was a cop, if he wasn't he would have definitely gotten murder.

That's my opinion and I never said the cop was right. I even said he deserved what he got. It was merely a vent rant on my part just like some others are vent/ranting. I agree he would have easily received murder if he wasn't a cop but that's why he got Manslaughter because he accidentally shot a guy while he was on duty trying to control a subject. End of story.

[Cleverness]

Oscar should have moved out the damn way if he didnt want to get shot. Bringing his ass into a warzone like that...

Yes let's compare a man face down on the ground, handcuffed, his upper body being held down there by another officer to a hoe who got on her knees and took a golden shower to the face.

[Yabby]

All i have to say is if the cop meant to do it, he has some big ass balls considering all the people there, with video, having the person pinned. I don't care how dumb a cop is, or how powerful they think they are. I just can't see it happening to be honest.

[Khajit]

Yes let's compare a man face down on the ground, handcuffed, his upper body being held down there by another officer to a hoe who got on her knees and took a golden shower to the face.

I dont see why not. They both getting something sent up their ass the when they go to jail.

[Cleverness]

I dont see why not. They both getting something sent up their ass the when they go to jail.

Well that's a given, everyone gets raped in jail. Boondocks confirmed this.

[miokomioko]

I don't know how anyone can watch that video and say it was "murder" without simply trolling the thread.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Predictable response. Your point is moot first because you don't know if the jury was white/black/Asian/purple/or Hispanic, and just assumed they're all white because you heard it in a movie and it's the first thing any self-absorbed black person would say when they don't have anything else to say.

Yeah, I do. The jury was 8 whites, 3 latinos and an asian. Nice try though.

I actually agree that too many cops abuse their power. Things are done about this. To make matters worse, the most notorious string of corrupted cops were in my very same police force (D.C.) and were known as The Dirty Dozen. They ran assassination missions, trafficked drugs all up and down the East Coast, killed hundreds of people, and even killed children. Oh did I mention all twelve of them were black? They were brothers too. 8 of them were killed in a raid and 4 of them were executed for their crimes.

I think you're misunderstanding my argument that all bad cops are white? My point is only that this case is that circumstances are extremely suspect and race was likely a motivator in the bad decision making process of the cop. I assure you if it was a white guy doing the same thing it would not have ended the same way.

Conveniently didn't tell you that the standard issue most used in America is the Glock 19 and it doesn't have a safety feature as you described. Thought you knew, sorry. The safety features of any Glock are settings that are designed to prevent accidental discharge, not from discharging directly (as the officer did). If you were well trained to fire the weapon, it wouldn't even feel like a safety was ever present. Even if there was, once the officers Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activated due to a high stress situation, all he would rely on is stimulus response training (doing one predetermined motion over and over and over again until he obtains muscle memory of the movement so he does it automatically without thinking). A Safety mechanism in that case would be moot as it would be unlocked in one fluid motion without thinking cause that's how he is trained, not how he thinks.

No present safety regulations are in place for Tasers with the exception of maybe 25% of them having a camera installed in the barrel for recording the incident. And yes, they do feel like a gun when you hold them in your hand and no they don't usually come with features that distinguish them from a gun. Even if they did, an SNS activation can cause people to see things differently than they appear. In no way am I justifying the actions of the officer, i'm just giving some theories as to why it happened.

Thank you for that. I still fail to see where trying to subdue an unarmed, helpless man restrained on the ground by two other officers as 'high stress' enough for an officer to have to quickly draw a taser and be forced to react so quickly as to accidentally discharge his gun. This is why it is murder. We trust you guys with a huge amount of power to help protect us. Not to quickly draw guns on unarmed, restrained citizens and have anything close to a marginal error with a lethal weapon. It's entirely unacceptable for someone in this to position to not have the capacity to use an incredible amount of restraint and judgment when no ones life was in any sort of danger.

Again, I never meant to justify his actions of killing someone by beating this horse. I was merely stating I was pissed off at all the threats simply because a white man killed a black man. Racism will never die as long as people keep this course of thinking. It could have been a Chinese man but would it have gained more publicity or media? Hell no. It only gained steam because people like you keep bringing up stuff that happened 300 years before I was born.

Racism won't go away if we just ignore it. Racism happens with a lot more subtlety than people give it credit for. I know this cop didn't blatantly attempt to 'kill a nigger.' But again the situation would have been handled in an entirely different manner if the man was white, or asian even because it wouldn't have come off as threatening. There's an instant assumption made about people based on how they dress, talk, act, and most importantly the color of their skin. These white cops felt threatened because a black man got all uppity and disrespected their authority and they took it to levels it should not have been taken to. This is subtle racism and it needs to be addressed.

[Yabby]

I assure you if it was a white guy doing the same thing it would not have ended the same way.

Correct, if the guy was white and this still happened then it would of been an accident without anyone calming otherwise. I'm not naive enough to say that racism is rare now a days, but i think people use it more than it really happens. When i head to flint, MI i expect the white and black people to robe me all the same. More about the area then the skin color IMO, even if others think differently.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Correct, if the guy was white and this still happened then it would of been an accident without anyone calming otherwise. I'm not naive enough to say that racism is rare now a days, but i think people use it more than it really happens. When i head to flint, MI i expect the white and black people to robe me all the same. More about the area then the skin color IMO, even if others think differently.

White guy never would have been restrained or had a gun drawn on him. No shit if a white guy shoots a white guy no one would have claimed racism, did you think of that all on your own or did you use your lifeline?

[Yabby]

Because white people never do anything to other white people. Every time a white guy hits a black guy its because he is racist. Every time a black guy resists arrest he is shot in the back by a white cop. Everyone was white on the jury so it was fixed.Anything i missed? Just one of those people that, no matter what it's racist or it wouldn't of happened to a white guy. Get over it, no one cares that the guy was black but the media and people like you who love to pull the race card on everything.

[Nephlite]

Yeah, I do. The jury was 8 whites, 3 latinos and an asian. Nice try though.

Need some proof.

I think you're misunderstanding my argument that all bad cops are white? My point is only that this case is that circumstances are extremely suspect and race was likely a motivator in the bad decision making process of the cop. I assure you if it was a white guy doing the same thing it would not have ended the same way.

They were doing the same thing to two other WHITE suspects on the platform, attempting to restrain them and to control the situation and gain compliance when Grant, who was unhandcuffed mind you, stands up after being told several times to sit still and don't move. Did the other white guys do that? Don't think so (maybe the fool on the far right but he was cuffed on his side after they worked him over. No one cared about him. Prolly cause he's white.). It wasn't race that spurred this, he did it to himself. Either that or we're watching two totally different video's and i'm completely wrong.

Thank you for that. I still fail to see where trying to subdue an unarmed, helpless man restrained on the ground by two other officers as 'high stress' enough for an officer to have to quickly draw a taser and be forced to react so quickly as to accidentally discharge his gun. This is why it is murder. We trust you guys with a huge amount of power to help protect us. Not to quickly draw guns on unarmed, restrained citizens and have anything close to a marginal error with a lethal weapon. It's entirely unacceptable for someone in this to position to not have the capacity to use an incredible amount of restraint and judgment when no ones life was in any sort of danger.

After he (Grant) refused several times to sit back on the ground after he stood, he was proned on the ground where the Officer with the buzz cut kneels on him while the officer who shoots Grant attempts to handcuff him. Look at his (Grants) feet. Look at him moving around and flailing. Didn't I ask you to test something out for me and didn't I already explain that even a handcuffed subject still needs a certain level of control? If they didn't control him, he could easily stand and run away, kick them, grab a weapon with his hands, spit, bite, turn over, pull another hidden weapon whatever the case may be, Grant still resisted and continued to resist even after he was cuffed. That is why they went to taze him. Then the officer says "Tazer" and draws the gun he believed was the Tazer and fires at the subject.

Time and again and from a couple of people have we said that you can Taze someone for the smallest of resistance (Passive Resistance is the next step above Compliance in my departments Use of Force policy and "Less Lethal" weapons are in that category as a response option). And Passive Resistance isn't even struggling or fighting! Just merely taking a fighting stance can warrant a Tazer use.

Listen to the crowd and place yourself there as an Officer:

You got a group of guys who were just fighting on a train. You pull them off, you have to handcuff three of them because they're so pumped. Then another guy jumps up and suddenly the crowd gets frenzied. There's 50 or 60 of them yelling, screaming, walking up to you telling you to let the black guy go, and he starts fighting. Gotta subdue him. Damn it's so loud here that other guy behind me my partners dealing with is spitting at me. He's cuffed but he's still fighting. Tell him to stop. He doesn't. Next option? Got the Tazer and OCAT. Pull the Tazer. Pull the Tazer.

Think i've said enough about this and saying "A Handcuffed subject should never be Tazed" isn't the way to justify your own belief. The fact of the matter you can plainly see he knew he fucked up. No one in their right mind is stupid enough to think they could get away with such a blatant misuse of a gun.

Racism won't go away if we just ignore it. Racism happens with a lot more subtlety than people give it credit for. I know this cop didn't blatantly attempt to 'kill a nigger.' But again the situation would have been handled in an entirely different manner if the man was white, or asian even because it wouldn't have come off as threatening. There's an instant assumption made about people based on how they dress, talk, act, and most importantly the color of their skin. These white cops felt threatened because a black man got all uppity and disrespected their authority and they took it to levels it should not have been taken to. This is subtle racism and it needs to be addressed

White people get killed by black cops and white people get killed by white cops just as often if not more than white cop kills black guy but do you hear about the white on white or the black on white? No, because you don't want to hear or see it. Doesn't matter if the black cop calls the white guy a "Cracka" just before he kills him. It's not a white cop killing a black man so who cares? Blind you are to the bigger picture and it's sickening to think that you honestly believe this happens so often.

Have fun, bedtime for me.

[Yabby]

White people get killed by black cops and white people get killed by white cops just as often if not more than white cop kills black guy but do you hear about the white on white or the black on white? No, because you don't want to hear or see it. Doesn't matter if the black cop calls the white guy a "Cracka" just before he kills him. It's not a white cop killing a black man so who cares? Blind you are to the bigger picture and it's sickening to think that you honestly believe this happens so often.

Have fun, bedtime for me.

You sir must be racist for even suggesting such a thing. Anyone who doesn't agree with him will be seen as such also.

[Cleverness]

Need some proof.

Simple google or wikipedia search pulled it up, like this site.

http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspo...n-case-of.html

Started with 7 whites, 4 hispanics and 1 asian. An alternate was later brought in which matches up with what Finesse said.

You sir must be racist for even suggesting such a thing. Anyone who doesn't agree with him will be seen as such also.

I know you're extremely butthurt cause he called you out on your completely stupid post earlier, but maybe you should learn to fucking read some. Fin didn't even mention race until he mentioned the mostly white jury, which is a fact. Majority of the racial allegations are ironically coming from the officer posting in this thread, and a few troll posts too.

As for wondering why race is actually an issue here, what people like you may not remember is a man who went by the name of Rodney King. Remember him? He lived in California too, was involved in an incident and restrained a bit, and after he was tazed and he fell down. Know what happened then? Excessive force also occurred, holy shit batman what a coincidence. Police surrounded him and beat him for well over a minute, he didn't die but still a breach of his civil rights. Know what happened then? Trial occurred, venue was moved to an area where majority of the jury was white(see the other coincidence?), all 4 cops involved in the beating were set free! And probably the only reason the LA Riots didn't happen again this year like it occurred then was because this officer was actually convicted of something, although some rioting still occurred.

By the way I only mention Rodney King as a comparison to how the trial process was shaping up. While excessive force was used in the arrest attempt also(getting shot with a gun while face down cuffed is excessive, accident or not can't argue this), it was again an accident. But either way, until the conviction came out it was pretty much looking EXACTLY like Rodney King 2 was about to occur, there's no reason to doubt why there was racism in the air regarding this subject. I don't think anyone's dumb enough to seriously imply the cop shot him because he was black.

[Yabby]

Rodney king happened back in 91.... that's almost 20 fucking years. Rodney king 2? Really? Are you that fucking dumb? A few white cops beat a helpless black guy to an inch of his life is just like a cop mistakenly shotting a guy in the back thinking he had a taser. Now i know you are butthurt because i trolled your friend but think about what you say please.

[Khajit]

Completely different. Rodney king was police brutality.
Oscar grant was police fucking up when they tried to start police brutality.