Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII (XIII, Versus, Agito)

[Kaylia]

FF9's game was just level grinding and randomness, no strategy or skill involved.

FF8 cardgame involved adding number up to 20. Calling that strategy is an overstatement. It's virtual impossible to lose once you get characters card, unless you decide on purpose to add random, combo and combo plus rule.

[Charismatic]

Well, it should be virtually impossible to lose a card game if you use all the best cards vs someone who doesn't have the best cards.
That only makes sense.


Just like in any game, if you want a challenge you don't grind to max level and get all the best gear before fighting the boss.
Of course you'll destroy him!

[Kaylia]

Well, it should be virtually impossible to lose a card game if you use all the best cards vs someone who doesn't have the best cards.
That only makes sense.

I never said "all" the best cardw. 1 avatar or 1 character card is usually enough to beat anyone you will encounter, making the game totally one sided.

[Kerberoz]

FF8 cardgame involved adding number up to 20. Calling that strategy is an overstatement. It's virtual impossible to lose once you get characters card, unless you decide on purpose to add random, combo and combo plus rule.

...so add all the rules, duh. Of course it's not fun without extra rules. If you've ever played the online TT games that popped up, they have even more rules like minus, wall, etc.

[Kaylia]

...so add all the rules, duh. Of course it's not fun without extra rules. If you've ever played the online TT games that popped up, they have even more rules like minus, wall, etc.

But the other rules add random element that become even more random than FF9's card battle. The only good one was "combo", but it wasnt that great if you wanted to win every cards without wasting time adding up numbers.

[Kerberoz]

Eh, there's nothing random with those, besides the cards. 2+2 is always 4, not some random value determined by card level and cpu cycles.

[Elcura]

Of course it's not fun without extra rules.

DISAGREE!

[Kaylia]

Eh, there's nothing random with those, besides the cards. 2+2 is always 4, not some random value determined by card level and cpu cycles.

As long it's "open", because when you don't know what the computer has in its hand, he might fuck you up on the last move, and you can't do anything about it

And even if you see everyone cards, you dont know which one is going to be played. There is a total of 432 possibility for the last 1 turns. Adding 2+2 isn't hard, but making sure you won't get rapped by a combo on the last turn is pretty hard most of the time, and anticipating the game right from the beginning is nearly impossible.

The best you can do is prevent anything bad for the next turn, but it won't save you since the last card always decide everything.

[Kerberoz]

That's where strategy comes into play... it's only "random" if you suck. You're supposed to be anticipating the entire game from the start.

Playing with no rules is something a 6 year old could do. "Higher number better durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrr"

[Kaylia]

That's where strategy comes into play... it's only "random" if you suck. You're supposed to be anticipating the entire game from the start.

Playing with no rules is something a 6 year old could do. "Higher number better durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrr"

Do you know there is 5.225 billions possible way to play the cards, and 432 when there is 4 empty spot on the grid? Don't even pretend you can calculate every outcome before this. It's not like chess game where you can attribute point to a better card, because a 1/2/1/3 card could turn the whole board on the last turn

Like I said, you simply go with the choice that have the best immediate result (sacrificing your weaker card first), except for the last 3 turn (12 different possiblity), which make it easy to plan ahead. However, you won't always have the tool to pull a "wall, combo, same" move with the remaining 2 cards, and the computer might just rape you if you're unlucky, making you lose the precious card you were trying to obtains.

[Null]

I'm glad this debate and information has been brought up...ten years down the road.

[Charismatic]

Do you know there is 5.225 billions possible way to play the cards, and 432 when there is 4 empty spot on the grid? Don't even pretend you can calculate every outcome before this. It's not like chess game where you can attribute point to a better card, because a 1/2/1/3 card could turn the whole board on the last turn

Like I said, you simply go with the choice that have the best immediate result (sacrificing your weaker card first), except for the last 3 turn (12 different possiblity), which make it easy to plan ahead. However, you won't always have the tool to pull a "wall, combo, same" move with the remaining 2 cards, and the computer might just rape you if you're unlucky, making you lose the precious card you were trying to obtains.

Kaylia, there's nothing random about plus, combo or the other rules.
Only thing to make sure of is that you have open rule and don't have random rule.
If you play smart you won't get completely screwed.

[Kaylia]

You have little control over the card played by the computer, and when there is 3-4 card left to be played, you often get in a situation where you can't prevent him from doing a combo. I know you can win, I know you can plan ahead when there is 2 turn left on both side, but I still got gayed many times with this rules.

I had more fun rapping the computer with overpowered card using "same" and "plus" rule than adding a stupid challenge with combo.

Beside, if you get to pick your card, you will take the strongest one.... it kinda kill the "strategy" part when your deck is stronger. Why make it artificially harder with "combo" rule, when you just pick your strongest card to make it easier.

[Kerberoz]

Was more referring to a live opponent than a computer.

Imo, a cool system would be:
- challenge anyone in any town zone, add a special npc for tournaments
- can't move while a game is in progress
- auto-forfeit after 90 seconds logged in, 5 minutes if a player disconnects
- choose 3x3 or 4x4
- numbers from 0->F instead of 1->A
- 200+ cards, cards of the same type can not change stats
- synth weak cards from soul plates, higher cards from NMs/quests/etc
- regional rule "sets" you can choose from, or make your own
- rules: random, plus, minus, same, combo, wall (wall value = 10 for combos), elemental, open

But of course that would be way too much work for SE.

[Kerberoz]

Maybe even 5x5... a larger board would eliminate most of the "randomness" from combos.

[Maxxthepenguin]

[link removed]

[Elcura]

Totally worth watching, man

[Null]

Good find, man.

[Kuya]

Are you sure these aren't the real English voice actors? Seems almost indistinguishable.

[ASG]

That was actually pretty funny.