Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII (XIII, Versus, Agito)

[Antithesis]

Ugh, this post is so dumb. You say "last good FF game" as if their games are no longer good, yet you like 2 of the last 3 FF games and haven't played the third. The only bad thing about the game we've seen so far is the voice acting, which is entirely down to peoples opinions, lots of people seem to think the VA is fine. Bad VA's would not be surprising in the least regardless. 12 had decent VA's, but 10's was awful. As is the voice acting in 99% of games.


What? Who? I guess it depends on your definition of "pop idol", but at a (massive) stretch I guess you mean Lightning, Vanille and perhaps Hope? If that's the case I dunno how the hell you're a fan of the FF series, when the majority of the cast in every FF game look like "pop idols".

I said the last good FF game I played. Final Fantasy XII didn't look appealing enough to warrant the buy. Maybe the new direction FF is moving in is not my cup of tea. As the other person stated, the character designs for these look a little strange. Usually, the characters look more diverse and unique (Even if they do look ridiculous ala Final Fantasy X.) But this time I feel like they all look bland.

[BRP]

I think BRP is just trolling.

Obviously! Who in their right mind could enjoy a game as a game??? I mean, if you did that, you might actually realize Final Fantasys have been mediocre crap and we can't do that. That's troll talk.

I wonder what you mongrels would prefer:

All the cutscenes of FFXIII alone vs FFXIII without any cutscenes.

Talking about how bad the new FFs are is so silly. They clearly have improved the aesthetics of the series as it continues and that's basically what the entire franchises tries to sell on. You are going to tell me the battle system is getting worse? I mean FFXI had the first interesting battle system of the series and FFXII had the dumbest shit in the world with the gambit system, but aside from that it is all been the same mindless trash systems.

[Xno Kappa]

Hard to tell the females apart at some points of the trailer. Character designs seem kinda meh to me as well but at least it's not all belts and zippers this time.

[Kuya]

Obviously! Who in their right mind could enjoy a game as a game??? I mean, if you did that, you might actually realize Final Fantasys have been mediocre crap and we can't do that. That's troll talk.

I am wonder what you mongrels would prefer:

All the cutscenes of FFXIII alone vs FFXIII without any cutscenes.

Talking about how bad the new FFs are is so silly. They clearly have improved the aesthetics of the series as it continues and that's basically what the entire franchises tries to sell on. You are going to tell me the battle system is getting worse? I mean FFXI had the first interesting battle system of the series and FFXII had the dumbest shit in the world with the gambit system, but aside from that it is all been the same mindless trash systems.

Troll! Troll! Troll!!!!

[Elcura]

That's only partially true. People are criticizing the voice acting not only based on this small sample, but the entire track record of Japanese-to-English dubbing in all the imported games, anime, and what have you.

In that case, no one would be fucking happy! It's as if suddenly all the pent up (or not) rage from shitty dubs have spilled over onto FFXIII. I mean, forgive me for thinking it's stupid to be so harsh not only on this small sample, but every other dub in existance that has nothing to do with FFXIII.

Is it that unreasonable that people would react this way, especially when even a hand selected small sample can be this bad? Especially considering these can be key scenes in the game story.

This bad? You people just have ridiculously high standards, it's clear that the trailer was just thrown together for the sake of...well I don't know why they did that, but you can hear the Japanese voices in the background sometime. I think that alone means you should take the voice overs with a grain of salt.

And I do think it's unreasonable to this extent. Cause for concern, maybe. I would totally understand if the whole game was like this.

Sub par voice acting may not keep me from enjoying the game entirely, but it certainly will affect it in a considerably negative way. People have a right to be disappointed when a game of this magnitude, all things considered including hyping it on SE's part, doesn't meet past standards.

I reckon most of the hype comes from fan themselves. As far as I can see, SE is just doing the normal amount of work to get a game noticed, which is understandable since they want it to sell.

[vrumpt]

I've probably watched that TGS trailer about 5 times or so now. The voices for all the characters sound amazing; there isn't any voice there that i can say i don't like (not true for all previous FF voiced games).

You can tell from the trailer there is a lot more to the story aside from the usual "XX bad guy is gonna destroy/conquer the world, we gotta stop him/her!". Seems there is a lot more deeper and meaningful conflicts this time, but maybe that is just the trailer's purpose here and the game will focus differently.

Overall when the game is completed its gonna be amazing as i expect any numbered FF game to be. The VA sync issues im sure is just because, as has been mentioned, due to the NA version being incomplete and they slapped it together rather quickly for us to drool on for 6 months.

Looks great. can't wait.

[GRT]

In that case, no one would be fucking happy! It's as if suddenly all the pent up (or not) rage from shitty dubs have spilled over onto FFXIII. I mean, forgive me for thinking it's stupid to be so harsh not only on this small sample, but every other dub in existance that has nothing to do with FFXIII.



This bad? You people just have ridiculously high standards, it's clear that the trailer was just thrown together for the sake of...well I don't know why they did that, but you can hear the Japanese voices in the background sometime. I think that alone means you should take the voice overs with a grain of salt.

And I do think it's unreasonable to this extent. Cause for concern, maybe. I would totally understand if the whole game was like this.



I reckon most of the hype comes from fan themselves. As far as I can see, SE is just doing the normal amount of work to get a game noticed, which is understandable since they want it to sell.

Don't rage, it's not good for your health.

And please note that the visual part of the trailer is edited with the utmost care to advertise the game. I'm not sure if you've played the demo or seen other recent gameplay footage, but most of the game aren't 120% blazing flashy like it is in this dubbed trailer. Therefore I can only assume that they didn't randomly select and just happened to come across badly dubbed dialogues, instead they picked the comparatively good parts if not the best they have.

And if that is the best they have, or at least the quality on average, it is more than cause for concern.

And no, I don't think fans have too high of a standard for this game. I'm not sure if you play any other games with dubbed voice over or watch any dubbed anime the past few years, but the quality has improved tremendously since the days of FF10. SE has always prided themselves as the premium RPG developers, and has said they wished to expand to foreign consumers as extensively as they can. This kind of lackluster localization efforts doesn't speak much of their sincerity in that department.

I agree however that some fans overreact, and the final product may just pleasantly surprise them. But if there should be overprotective fanboys such as yourself, there should just be critics just as zealous to balance things out. In this case, I say they at least have a good cause.

Oh and don't do those nitpicking line-by-line responses, not sure how you see it but that's pretty much what you do when you wanna pick a fight.

[ArchDizzle]

Don't rage, it's not good for your health.

And please note that the visual part of the trailer is edited with the utmost care to advertise the game. I'm not sure if you've played the demo or seen other recent gameplay footage, but most of the game aren't 120% blazing flashy like it is in this dubbed trailer. Therefore I can only assume that they didn't randomly select and just happened to come across badly dubbed dialogues, instead they picked the comparatively good parts if not the best they have.

And if that is the best they have, or at least the quality on average, it is more than cause for concern.

And no, I don't think fans have too high of a standard for this game. I'm not sure if you play any other games with dubbed voice over or watch any dubbed anime the past few years, but the quality has improved tremendously since the days of FF10. SE has always prided themselves as the premium RPG developers, and has said they wished to expand to foreign consumers as extensively as they can. This kind of lackluster localization efforts doesn't speak much of their sincerity in that department.

I agree however that some fans overreact, and the final product may just pleasantly surprise them. But if there should be overprotective fanboys such as yourself, there should just be critics just as zealous to balance things out. In this case, I say they at least have a good cause.

Oh and don't do those nitpicking line-by-line responses, not sure how you see it but that's pretty much what you do when you wanna pick a fight.

Your comparison of the trailer and the demo is completely incorrect. I own the demo and have played the shit out of it. The demo is extremely watered down and gives you 3 basic attacks and the ability to heal, no menus, no abilities/summons/paradigm shift/etc. and only three of the main characters, Vs. the trailer which has everything accessible. I don't know how you play, but even in that extremely watered down version it is very easy to tell the trailer is a very accurate depiction of what the final build will play like.

As far as the quality of the game goes, whether it be "the best they have or the quality on average" that you are saying calls for concern, lets look at the things from the trailer we can pre-judge the quality from.

Graphics in game and cutscenes: Gorgeous
Voice acting & characters: Good to very good
Plot: From what little bits we have got it looks to be an interesting story that has great potential (hard to judge the plot or story at all at this point with very little info to go on)
Gameplay/Battle System: Great, Fast Paced and IMO Very fun from the little of it I was able to experience with the demo.

So ya, I can see why that would be a cause for concern.

[Correction]

Japanese Voice acting & characters: Good to very good

Just in case we still care about accurate representation of facts.

[Kuya]

His avatar and sig are a nice touch.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

His avatar and sig are a nice touch.

lol, Indeed.

[GRT]

Your comparison of the trailer and the demo is completely incorrect. I own the demo and have played the shit out of it. The demo is extremely watered down and gives you 3 basic attacks and the ability to heal, no menus, no abilities/summons/paradigm shift/etc. and only three of the main characters, Vs. the trailer which has everything accessible. I don't know how you play, but even in that extremely watered down version it is very easy to tell the trailer is a very accurate depiction of what the final build will play like.

As far as the quality of the game goes, whether it be "the best they have or the quality on average" that you are saying calls for concern, lets look at the things from the trailer we can pre-judge the quality from.

Graphics in game and cutscenes: Gorgeous
Voice acting & characters: Good to very good
Plot: From what little bits we have got it looks to be an interesting story that has great potential (hard to judge the plot or story at all at this point with very little info to go on)
Gameplay/Battle System: Great, Fast Paced and IMO Very fun from the little of it I was able to experience with the demo.

So ya, I can see why that would be a cause for concern.

Yes, I can see how someone who plays the shit out of the completely watered down demo would indeed find Jesus in this trailer.

[Elcura]

Don't rage, it's not good for your health.

And please note that the visual part of the trailer is edited with the utmost care to advertise the game. I'm not sure if you've played the demo or seen other recent gameplay footage, but most of the game aren't 120% blazing flashy like it is in this dubbed trailer. Therefore I can only assume that they didn't randomly select and just happened to come across badly dubbed dialogues, instead they picked the comparatively good parts if not the best they have.

And if that is the best they have, or at least the quality on average, it is more than cause for concern.

And no, I don't think fans have too high of a standard for this game. I'm not sure if you play any other games with dubbed voice over or watch any dubbed anime the past few years, but the quality has improved tremendously since the days of FF10. SE has always prided themselves as the premium RPG developers, and has said they wished to expand to foreign consumers as extensively as they can. This kind of lackluster localization efforts doesn't speak much of their sincerity in that department.

I agree however that some fans overreact, and the final product may just pleasantly surprise them. But if there should be overprotective fanboys such as yourself, there should just be critics just as zealous to balance things out. In this case, I say they at least have a good cause.

Oh and don't do those nitpicking line-by-line responses, not sure how you see it but that's pretty much what you do when you wanna pick a fight.

My reply was pretty far from rage, but I see how you'd get that assumption. And fine, no quote dissection, I just find it easier that way but since you think it's some kind of fight talk I won't do it.

I know stuff you see in the trailer doesn't represent how the game will be for the most part. RPGs are surprisingly dull when you start, but it's the promise of awesome action/game play that keeps us going (and the trailer provides that). They picked parts that showed interests and relationships between characters, not really anything to do with the story. So yeah, they aren't random but it's not like they showed us the most (or all) of the emotional parts in the story. In terms of game play, I'm sure they picked some of the best, but that's just it, some of the best. Same with voice acting, in what could be an 80 hour game/40 hours of story, a 2-3 minute trailer doesn't do it a lot of justice. So no one can say for sure. The Japanese trailer had a lot of care taken when it was produced, so I can't be critical of something that was quickly dubbed over in order to give people a taste of the voices.

Most people are over reacting, I'm glad to say that I'll enjoy the VA and have no concerns, because I don't have some giant stick up my ass. I don't see a cause for concern in this trailer other than some people have really high expectations. Did you want tears rolling down your cheeks as the character's spoke sweet words of love and eternity to eachother?

I agree with you that the standard has gone up, but that's just a generalization. A few games rarely exceed expections and go above and beyond what one would expect. FFXII for the most part was that game, but even that had weak points (Vaan, Penelo and personally Fran come to mind). LO, P3 and P4 really drew me in, hell, the Death Note dub was excellent. All those have weak points, they aren't perfect but the quality is there. FFXIII isn't just acceptable, it's good. Not great (can't tell yet), just good. Nothing jumps out and screams "fucking awful!" to me. I guess the black guy is a little worrying though.

I guess I come off as overprotective, but I really don't give a shit about what people think about the game play, character design, music, graphics etc. This is just the current topic we're on when it comes to FFXIII, and I think people are being too harsh. I do like how I'm a fanboy though and you're a critic.

[ArchDizzle]

Just in case we still care about accurate representation of facts.

Didn't say it was fact just judging on what we have to go on so far, VA will obviously always be a matter of opinion, but I guess it's hard to be unbiased when you have a predisposition to hate the NA VO from the get go from all that pent up rage from dub's past.

Yes, I can see how someone who plays the shit out of the completely watered down demo would indeed find Jesus in this trailer.

Good rebuttal man, nice subtle way of concurring that your statements were shit that had no basis.


I don't consider playing a demo and watching a few trailers and making an assumption that a game will be good comparable to "finding jesus in it" but thats just me. This game is just like every other fucking game, previews look good imo and I like the way everything is going, but just like so many other games you won't know if it's complete shit or a great game until it's finished and we have our hands on it. If the game doesn't look good to you, that's your opinion and it's fine, don't buy it, but if you want to tear it down bring some valid reasons to do so.

[Nevex]

Complaints over the gambit system? Seriously?

People including myself hate how in most game allies' AI utterly sucks, and the gambit system solves that issue giving the player HUGE customization to characters you're not controlling, not to mention it's entirely optional.

In fact the only thing I'm worried about in FFXIII is the simplified gambit system, I don't think they'll go as far as having healers cast dumb crap like Reflect>Curaga or Silence on non-casting mobs but after we've seen how horrible FFXI signal pearl's NPC's AI is, you can't really criticize the best AI customization ever appeared in a game.

Besides it was the only way to have multiple characters work together decently in a fast-paced game like FFXII, unless you wanted to go through the "ATB syndhrome" once again, and by that I mean:

FF4: Attack/Attack/Jump/Bahamut/Curaja
FF5: Rapid Fire x4
FF6: Quick+Ultima x4
FF7: KotR>Mime>Mime
FF8: Aura>Limit Break x3
FF9: Attack/Attack/Flare/Holy

Having to input the same 3-5 commands for every battle gets tedious in the long run, at least in FFXII the AI does that for you. And don't tell me you actually let your party leader be entirely controlled by the gambit system for the whole game with no input at all because it's bs; most bosses simply don't let you do that.

The only bad thing about the gambit system is that it makes healing and support magic/items a bit too powerful as your characters are constantly protect/shell/haste/bravery/faith/regen'd and status heals happen instantly, therefore a lot of FFXII's endgame bosses rely on instant-kill tactics (hi Yiazmat) and those fights do get boring, but the system works very well for most of the game.

[BRP]

Complaints over the gambit system? Seriously?

Most combat systems at least sound good on paper. The gambit system doesn't get that far.

Either it is useless because the enemy AI is too smart for it or the enemy is too fucking easy/stupid to actually get beaten by a few lines of bot code. Game for the most part falls into the latter, even for the stronger bosses in the game.

you can't really criticize the best AI customization ever appeared in a game.

You throw around such a statement so easily. Have you actually checked?

Besides it was the only way to have multiple characters work together decently in a fast-paced game like FFXII,

How does Starcraft manage?!?!

[Kaylia]

Either it is useless because the enemy AI is too smart for it or the enemy is too fucking easy/stupid to actually get beaten by a few lines of bot code. Game for the most part falls into the latter, even for the stronger bosses in the game.

That's simply not true. Unless you're overpowered (same apply to any rpg), you will get some pretty intense fight­. Positioning alone add a lot of dept to the gameplay, and gambit don't cover this.

It's bullshit to say that gambit can beat the game for you. You wont be able to beat most hunt/boss with gambit alone (althought, chance is, if you do every hunts, you will be way overpowered for story bosses). For normal fight...well fucking duh. Give me a rpg where normal encounter are challenging (unless you're constantly underleveled)


If anything, the limit break (forgot how it was called) is the only game breaking component. I bet most people who complain about difficulty level spammed it the whole time, and never actually tried playing the game.

How does Starcraft manage?!?!

That's funny you bring this up, because in WC3 where unit have slightly more skill/debuff, they added "auto spell-cast".


It works for Starcraft, because every unit are extremely simple and are limited to 0-2 skills that are very situational. The only command that need to be spammed continuously is Medic's heal...and ironically enough, it's gambit'd to heal the closest target.

[BRP]

It's bullshit to say that gambit can beat the game for you.

Good thing I didn't say that.

Unless you're overpowered

Why wouldn't you be overpowered? Don't you realize that is apart of the equation that makes Final Fantasys (and etc) suck? "So-and-so is great... when you play with your feet!"

Give me a rpg where normal encounter are challenging

Assuming we mean "JRPG," I can't, because they are all built in a way that involves a bunch of pointless shit in the way of the goal. (EDIT: In fact if it didn't have this empty filler, you(specifically you) wouldn't call it a RPG)

I bet most people who complain about difficulty level spammed it the whole time, and never actually tried playing the game.

If they never tried the game they couldn't spam anything. You are applying "scruby" shit to single-player games lol.

Is FFXII suddenly suppose to become a great game when you add your own rules to it?


As for the Starcraft example, you miss the point. The Actions Per Second in games like that are incredibly high. It is not the specific "abilities" that matter. Whether FFXII is interesting without the gambit system also doesn't matter. It is the general shittiness that makes FFXII boring. The very idea of the gambit system, takes it and frames it on a wall.

[Bweigelt]

As for the Starcraft example, you miss the point. The Actions Per Second in games like that are incredibly high. It is not the specific "abilities" that matter. Whether FFXII is interesting without the gambit system also doesn't matter. It is the general shittiness that makes FFXII boring. The very idea of the gambit system, takes it and frames it on a wall.

Battles in Starcraft actually take a very similar format to battles in FFXII. 90%of EAPM (effective actions per minute) is devoted to Marcro in an average players SC game. Even the Pro's spend very little time microing battles, they do a few things at to prepare for the battle and then let it play out for the most part, they might return here an there to make adjustments or to make a quick change of strategy (I.E Zealot Bombing, or irradiating Defilers, consuming and than DS'ing in a new spot). Sound Familiar? It's pretty much the same concept in FFXII, you prepare for the battles with the proper gambits, and make adjustments as the battles go on. The only difference is SC is a fucking RTS and so you're busy building your army while the battles go on while in FFXII you obviously don't have any of that to do, unless of course you are saying FFXII should have been an RTS?

[Kaylia]

Good thing I didn't say that.

It was implied when you said "Game is too fucking easy/stupid to actually get beaten by a few lines of bot code."

While I understand the implication of the "or" in your original line, implying that a large portion of the game can be done by your gambit alone is still a gross exageration that is incorrect, and that's what I'm pointing out.

Why wouldn't you be overpowered? Don't you realize that is apart of the equation that makes Final Fantasys (and etc) suck? "So-and-so is great... when you play with your feet!

Assuming we mean "JRPG," I can't, because they are all built in a way that involves a bunch of pointless shit in the way of the goal. (EDIT: In fact if it didn't have this empty filler, you(specifically you) wouldn't call it a RPG)

First of all, I don't know how many fucking time you're going to masturbate over this retarded argument. No one but you care...we all know what we are talking about when we use the term RPG, yet, you refuse to aknowledge the general definition just because it hurts your pen and paper soft spot.

Also, you're wrong about my definition. I call RPG any games that have a large world to explore, where command are inputted indirectly (adventure game = direct input in a large world, action game = smaller world generally, game constantly toss shit at you and reflex matter...the rest are hybrid).

FF games were never hard, I can give you this much, but that's not what I like from them. FFXII was probably the first game in the series that gave me a real challenge that a 4 lines gambit wouldnt be able to beat (if there was actually such system in previous game).

That said, the same shit applies to 99% of the rpg out there (even the open ended american garbage that you love so much) .

If they never tried the game they couldn't spam anything. You are applying "scruby" shit to single-player games lol.

Is FFXII suddenly suppose to become a great game when you add your own rules to it?

BRP: Gambit does everything for you, or suck too much
Kay: You wont be able to beat most bosses with gambit alone. Quickening is what make the game too easy, not gambit.

Quickening did need a better balance, but not being able to overlook something like this just make you fucking dense, because in the end, it's a minor detail. Gambit can be turned off if they "are too stupid" like you said, but there is a good chance it's not the gambit that suck, but the players.

Is FFXII suddenly suppose to become a great game when you add your own rules to it?

Delicious irony here...

Should I word an argument using D&D here, or you see where I'm going? It's your own damn fault if you think the game is too easy, when you use every loophole, or "easy mode".

As for the Starcraft example, you miss the point. The Actions Per Second in games like that are incredibly high. It is not the specific "abilities" that matter. Whether FFXII is interesting without the gambit system also doesn't matter. It is the general shittiness that makes FFXII boring. The very idea of the gambit system, takes it and frames it on a wall.

First of all, it's fucking retarded to compare two genres like this, with 2 completely different purpose. I'm not even sure why you want to take the argument in this direction... it's virtually impossible to draw any fair parallel between both game.

Secondly, I played Starcraft and Warcraft 3 I don't know much, and yes, the quantity of ability is directly involved with the amount of microing you're doing. There isnt much microing in starcraft after the rush period is over.


Overall shittiness...I don't mind opinion, but something like this is pretty damn vague. If gambit isn't issue, what make it shitty?