Alternativ Merit Camps

[wop]

weak noobs are weak

[Cadsuane]

You typically have the COR pull, or just like, roam. There's little space between pops on the bottom floor.

45 second averages are far below prime no matter how you spin it.

[Ultimagi]

Keep exaggerating, I'm sure your Moogle thinks you're epic.

Square-Enix mentioned that the Beastmen Strongholds [S] were designed with merit camps in mind, has anyone tried them or seen any possibilities there?

[Ultimagi]

In a Corsair and Bard party, the Bard still pulls.

[Liquidedust]

Just crunched the numbers.

Let's assume you have capped Imperial Defense, so Sanction gives 15%.
Also assume your Corair is some sort of God, and can maintain a solid 11 on Corsair's Roll for 1 hour.
On top of these, your chain is already capped starting the 1 hour timer, and there's unlimited Greater Colibri.
Let's say you kill one enemy every 45 seconds, and they average at 300 experience points each.
With Sanction and Corsair's Roll giving you a 39% bonus, you get 417 experience points every 45 seconds.
You kill 80 enemies in 1 hour, totaling 33,360 experience points.

These are EXTREMELY generous assumptions.

In reality, you will never have maxed Corsair's Roll for 1 hour straight, you will never not run out of enemies killing 1 every 45 seconds, and you will never get 300 experience points every kill.

What in god's name are you doing to keep a Colibri alive for 45 seconds. No offense meant here at all but a colibri that lives past 25-30 seconds after last mob kill you are doing something wrong.

There are 10 or 11 pops of birds on middle Nyzul, plus two Wivre. A good party clears all of these AND has to pull 2-4 birds from lower floor just to maintain chains here that is 14-17 kills every 5 minutes.

If you take this killspeed in the above scenario without Corsair's Roll is around 28~33k/h. Note that people can and are maintaining this killspeed, this is not some fabricated saga or tale.

You are really underestimating how fast a well-oiled party with good DDs actually are killing with a very large error margin here.

2hander melees with 55-60% Haste and 6hit buildshere only take 11 to 20 seconds to go from WS to WS, and once a melee can WS a bird and even Wivre is dead or next to dead.

[Cadsuane]

Keep exaggerating, I'm sure your Moogle thinks you're epic.

Square-Enix mentioned that the Beastmen Strongholds [S] were designed with merit camps in mind, has anyone tried them or seen any possibilities there?

Yes. They suffer from the crippling disadvantage that they aren't colibri. The best camps are probably the three inner areas of the beastman strongholds, generally the camp isn't even as good as mamool ja camps because of bad repop times. There are more pops than a ToAU camps, but you have to cover alot of ground to work them all, so it turns into deco weapon style fiddle fuckery to keep a chain.

[wop]

2hander melees with 55-60% Haste and 6hit buildshere only take 11 to 20 seconds to go from WS to WS, and once a melee can WS a bird and even Wivre is dead or next to dead.

We have to pull Wivres from both top and bottom coz everything ran out

[Tubbers]

25 seconds

I'd like to meet the Bard who has time to cast March or Utsusemi in that madness.
This only further proves my point of the impossibility. Also note that you are only measuring the time from engage to kill, not between kills. This down time increases when the kill time gets shorter, and you don't end up actually killing any more per hour.

His name is Untamedheart, and I told you the average kill time, not the average time between kills, lol. I'm fairly sure that was clear. Kill->Kill time was 31.59 seconds, and the only reason it was more than 1-2 seconds longer than the fight time was because we ran out of Colibri. If another party hadn't been on the ledge below this time would have dropped significantly. Your 45 seconds is still extremely high for Colibri.

How this "only further proves" your point is beyond me, I showed you data from a parse of a fairly average merit PT which destroys your 45 seconds, and you claim this proves you are correct?

If you simply ignore data presented against you it doesn't make you correct, it makes you a troll -- there is no point in arguing like this.

[evilpaul]

Meh, maybe by page 5 people will have finished their meritpo e-peen shit and come up with an actual alternative merit camp?

[Darkmoon]

If your roaming the loop on either camp you really don't even "pull" the mobs, a few that are off in the cornor, but the rest its usualy just let the DD voke the next if its near, if its not pull > Lul > Song x1 > pull > song x1 > etc. Typicaly in a RDM COR BRD party the brd doesn't even need to ballad the RDM if they are its only Ballad 2, once in a while.

As far as the Alt. Camp Idea, I understand the fun/need to go somewhere diffrent and just kill diffrent mobs. Sea has some fun places, I understand the fun of not worrying about some AH trash party with 4 Gimp DDs, a PLD and a DNC as only healer trying to take 1-2 of your birds in your bird camp...

As far as Past[S] camps, Id still ove to see more options that people have found for the 50-75 levels in these area's.

I have merited in Castle O[S] a few times pre SCNM. The camp wasnt 25k/hr, you have to roam, and you have to deal with a lot of mage Birds. But it was a nice diffrent thing, and no one was bugging us.

Oddly enough sometimes it nice to use real food at a merit camp.

[Ultimagi]

14 enemies in 5 minutes? The minimum respawn time is 6 minutes.
I'll tweak this to be more realistic.
100 enemies in 1 hour, that's one every 36 seconds, at 300 experience points each after bonuses, you're still only getting 30,000 experience points.

[Tubbers]

14 enemies in 5 minutes? The minimum respawn time is 6 minutes.
I'll tweak this to be more realistic.
100 enemies in 1 hour, that's one every 36 seconds, at 300 experience points each after bonuses, you're still only getting 30,000 experience points.

Holy shit. I really, really want to believe you're just trolling. "More realistic", please. Just because you are incapable of grasping what is going on, doesn't mean your narrow view is correct.

There are 21 Colibri spawns at the Nyzul camp. The respawn is 5 minutes, give 0-15 seconds or so. 10 Colibri are on top, 11 are on the bottom. You can usually pull ~4-5 or more from the bottom if you are in the middle. That's where his ~14 in 5 minutes comes from, it's not unbelievable if you are the only PT there. Your 300 xp/mob is ridiculous, it's not going to be that high, if you want to make things more realistic, use ~234.


This is an average rate for me at colibri, not e-peen, not bragging, this is fairly common for solid parties:

Experience Rates
Total Experience : 44755
Number of Fights : 191<-----
Start Time       : 11:25:02 PM
End Time         : 1:05:36 AM
Party Duration   : 1:40:34 <-----
Total Fight Time : 1:19:51
Avg Time/Fight   : 31.59 seconds <-----
Avg Fight Length : 25.01 seconds
XP/Fight         : 234.32
XP/Minute        : 445.00
XP/Hour          : 26699.81

I agree that anything over 30k/hr is uncommon or rare, but to claim it is impossible is ridiculous.

If people want to suggest viable alternative camps, they're going to need to exceed 50% of the rate of a ToAU merit party.

[Alistaire]

He's either trolling or an idiot, either way people should really just stop responding to him.

Oh, and Castle Oztroja [S] can be good for merits if you have a -really- good setup. Beadeaux has a spot where you can get good exp (but not meripo level) while farming pops for Poison Taster's Cape, if you're so inclined. Never tried La Vaule but couldn't see it being any good at all.

[Ultimagi]

You do realize your parse is consistant with what I'm saying right? I don't see why you're getting mad at me when you're agreeing with me...

[ringthree]

He's either trolling or an idiot, either way people should really just stop responding to him.

Oh, and Castle Oztroja [S] can be good for merits if you have a -really- good setup. Beadeaux has a spot where you can get good exp (but not meripo level) while farming pops for Poison Taster's Cape, if you're so inclined. Never tried La Vaule but couldn't see it being any good at all.

I loved Castle O in the past before they added that stupid BLM NM... if they just move it to a side corridor it would be fine again.

You don't need a "really" good set up, but it definitely favors a two mage set-up or a THF with fully merited Feint.

It is already on Campsitarus though.

[Ultimagi]

I was hoping MMM would let us instance merit camps, but Square-Enix fails.

Maybe the Northlands [S] will bring back something like those good old Uleguerand Range parties, but with Bhaflau Thickets potential?

[TacoTaru]

Epic noob question, but how exactly do you pull both the top and bottom? There's only so much reach you can get from the top with Elegy, or do you only need a few from the bottom to hold the time before repops?

[Neosutra]

My fucking god. I swear that if I see one more person exaggerate their XP/HR on birds, I'm gonna fucking kill everything that moves. Repeat after me: It is NOT FUCKING POSSIBLE to get over ~23k/hr on birds. Ever. No, I don't fucking care what your setup is. Even 23k/hr is with Corsair's Roll and Rukenshin. The birds literally do not pop fast enough to maintain anything CLOSE to 35k/hr. Even IF you could actually kill them fast enough to THINK of getting 35k/hr, you would lose chain every single cycle. And no, Anniversary Ring doesn't count.

Im sure this was covered a few times by other people in this thread, but -every- birds party I make gets 25-27k an hour at birds, 28+ with cor roll. Im not sure what the fuck you're doing wrong, but 23k should be the "meh this party is average" metric.

Typically my parties do about 26k an hour w/o a cor, needing the occasional bird from the second story to maintain it and every so often a wivre.

I parse my parties and the exp/hour every time. If you arent getting 25k+ an hour, give the camp up to someone who can.

[Alistaire]

Epic noob question, but how exactly do you pull both the top and bottom? There's only so much reach you can get from the top with Elegy, or do you only need a few from the bottom to hold the time before repops?

This. Same with pulling occasional mamool/mamool pets.

[Ultimagi]

Neo knows how to not exaggerate. Glad I'm not alone.