Lost: Season 5

[Null]

Maybe Danial just saw a random red head and guessed it was her. We never got conformation on it. Or maybe her mother changed her birth date when they left the island because she didn't want her daughter to know about it.

[Dimmauk]

It does seem confusing. What caused the flash that brought down the plane this time? If Locke stopped the Flashes, then how did that flash happen?

[Lbelle]

Well at first I was thinking the final flash on the plane was caused by Locke turning the wheel, but that then makes 0 sense cause he was already dead and in the casket and crashing onto the island again, so yeah, that flash didn't make sense.

Also, the people off the island weren't off the island for two weeks they were off the island for three years. Are you saying that when they were off the island for three years only two weeks took place on the island? Cause it looked like three years took place on the island as well from all of the "Three Years Later" things in the episode.

[0ni0n]

I don't think it's time moving slowly, I think it moves at the same pace, it's own pace.

Think of it this way, you have two Stereos, they're both playing at the same time and at the same speed. One of the stereos, you decided to rewind for a bit and press play again, now both stereos are still playing at the same pace but now out of sync.

The final time travel by Sawyer's crew is not different from the time travel by Jack's crew, they both entered the delayed time zone, just at different points. To use my example again, Sawyer's crew entered in the first quarter of the song, Jack's crew entered three quarters in, but they're both in the same delayed song.

So if that theory is correct, to Jack / Kate / Sawyer / Hurley, they have aged 3 years while the others are still what you said, 2 weeks older. The only difference is the fact that the island kept jumping through various points in time, while the people who left the island are on a constant timeline.

The only person different to all this was John Lock, he left the island in Sawyer's time when he was digging up a well and arrived in Tunisia 3 years later, but that was because he turned the wheel. Ben did something similar but I forget how far in the future he was pushed.
To me it feels like the Island pushes you out to match the time of the people who you were with. (It's been 3 years since the main guys left, John leaves and pops out 3 years later.)

I think pre dharma, the island was most likely untouched timewise and was at the same pace, unless the ancients knew how to play with the time dial.

I disagree. The rewind theory is interesting, but assuming the rewind is instantaneous and doesn't affect the speed of time, only the point in time. One stereo playing for 3 years will require the other stereo to also play for 3 years. The difference is that they will be in different part of the song. But we know that's not true because one plays for 3 years while the other only plays for 2 weeks.

From the perspective of the people who are on the island, Jack and others left and returned in a span of two weeks. How can we tell? Because before sawyer and others traveled back to 1974, john left the island and when he met jack, 3 years have already passed. For those who actually left, it was 3 years no matter how you rewind it. I think it is sufficient to conclude that there are two different timelines, where different speeds of time apply.

Before the timeshift happened in this episode, there are events in the past that suggest the time on island moves differently then it is off the island.

[0ni0n]

Well at first I was thinking the final flash on the plane was caused by Locke turning the wheel, but that then makes 0 sense cause he was already dead and in the casket and crashing onto the island again, so yeah, that flash didn't make sense.

Also, the people off the island weren't off the island for two weeks they were off the island for three years. Are you saying that when they were off the island for three years only two weeks took place on the island? Cause it looked like three years took place on the island as well from all of the "Three Years Later" things in the episode.

Yes, before the time travel, from the perspective of people who were on the island the entire time, jack and others only left for about 2 weeks. And they have only been on the island for about 3-4 months since the crash of the oceanic flight. All this is true before sawyer and other time traveled back to 1974. So it goes like this

Timeline 1: Oceanic crash > 3-4 months on the island > jack and others left for home> 2 weeks later > sawyer and others time traveled back to 1974 > 3 years later

Timeline 2: jack and others left for home > 3 years at home > plane crashed and time traveled back to 1977 on the island

The island is the convergence of two timelines, meaning that the only way to go from one timeline to the other is by getting onto the island. That could also explain and support my impression that the island has its own timeline where time moves at a different speed.

[Karshe]

I don't understand where the confusion is...

Oceanic 6: Spent ~3 years off the island
Sawyer and company: Spent ~3 years stuck in the past with Dharma.

Three years has passed for both groups, they're just in different time periods. Both groups have aged 3 years.

The only thing that isn't explained is how the Oceanic 6 got thrown back into the past after their arrvial to the island, i.e. the flash during 316's crash.

From the perspective of the people who are on the island, Jack and others left and returned in a span of two weeks.

This is where you lose me... from the perspective of the people who are on the island, Jack and others left three years ago. "Three years later..." Sawyer and Juliet are happily together and Sawyer has gotten over Kate. Jin can speak English. That happened after three years, not two weeks. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding you. I feel like I'm being whooshed... there were several "Three years later..." transitions this episode, and Sawyer's speech about three years being enough time to get over someone. >.>

[Dimmauk]

It seems Jin got really good at English in two weeks then.

[0ni0n]

I don't understand where the confusion is... I don't quite understand your proposed timeline, Onion.

Oceanic 6: Spent ~3 years off the island
Sawyer and company: Spent ~3 years stuck in the past with Dharma.

Three years has passed for both groups, they're just in different time periods. Both groups have aged 3 years.

The only thing that isn't explained is how the Oceanic 6 got thrown back into the past after their arrvial to the island, i.e. the flash during 316's crash.

3 years already passed for jack and others who left the island before sawyer and others time traveled back to 1974. So the 3 years won't match each other. The two 3 years were not happening at the same time.

Jack and others spending 3 years at home > John locke off the island > sawyer and others time traveled back to 1974 and spent 3 years there > jack and others time traveled to 1977 and reunite with sawyer and others.

It seems Jin got really good at English in two weeks then.

No, he learned that in the course of 3 years, after the timetravel. but before the timetravel, during which jack and others spent 3 years of their life, they have only left for 2 weeks.

[Karshe]

I edited my post a bit after you started responding... but yeah, I guess I understand what you're talking about.

The wheel spits you out into the future... Ben and Locke both experienced this. So the way I'm understanding it is:

Oceanic 6: 2 weeks of "Yay we're rescued" > ~3 years > Locke is found in the desert and eventually killed > back to the island
Sawyer: 2 weeks of time flashes > Locke turns wheel > ~3 years in 1977 > Jin finds Jack/Hurley/Kate

[0ni0n]

This is where you lose me... from the perspective of the people who are on the island, Jack and others left three years ago. "Three years later..." Sawyer and Juliet are happily together and Sawyer has gotten over Kate. Jin can speak English. That happened after three years, not two weeks. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding you. I feel like I'm being whooshed... there were several "Three years later..." transitions this episode, and Sawyer's speech about three years being enough time to get over someone. >.>

Yea, I meant like for people who didn't time travel back to 1974. Lets take one of the survivors from oceanic 6 who did not go back to 1974 with sawyer and others, if the survivor sees jack and others again, it would have only been 2 weeks since they first left for home. It was my fault for the confusion. I revised the timeline to show how the 3 years were happening at the same time.

Timeline 1: Oceanic crash > 3-4 months on the island > jack and others left for home> 2 weeks later > John locke left the island to get jack and others to come back > sawyer and others time traveled back to 1974 > 3 years later

Timeline 2: jack and others left for home > 3 years at home > John locke left the island to get jack and others to come back > plane crashed and time traveled back to 1977 on the island

the first 3 years happened before john locke left the island, the second 3 years happened after.

[Karshe]

The way I understand it, your second timeline is incorrect. John did not turn the frozen wheel three years after the Oceanic 6 had been back. He turned it right after they had left the island ("two weeks") and the reason he was able to meet with them in the future is because the frozen wheel's exit is in the future. Or there's some sort of time delay of getting deposited. Obviously it hasn't been explained yet.

You know, if I had looked at this last page or two of conversation a year ago... this show would have sounded too farfetched lol.

[Dimmauk]

So what caused the Flash that caused the 316 to crash? And did people on the 1970s island see the flash that caused the plane to crash? I wonder what the 1970s people will think of the future people and plane.

[0ni0n]

The way I understand it, your second timeline is incorrect and does not exsist. John did not turn the frozen wheel three years after the Oceanic 6 had been back. He turned it right after they had left the island ("two weeks") and the reason he was able to meet with them in the future is because the frozen wheel's exit is in the future. Or there's some sort of time delay of getting desposited. Obviously it hasn't been explained yet.

I think you and lordwafik are right. and also the two 3 years can coincide with each other. Jack and others spent 3 years and 2 weeks off the island since 2005 in a straight forward fashion, no timeskips at all. Sawyers and others spent 2 weeks in 2005 and 3 years in 1974 at the same pace as jack and others did in 2005. When John moved the wheel, he went from 2005 to 2008, that's why the two 3 years would seem like they aren't matching. When Jack crashed again, he landed in 1977 because the island went from 2008 to 1977.

The only thing they need to explain is that where john spent his 3 years.

[Karshe]

Yeah, I think it's us not understanding how the wheel works that is confusing things. I have a feeling they won't delve into it either, just that "It's the exit off the island" and "When you use it, you get dumped into the future."

We don't know what caused the flash on 316's flight. Maybe it was the island course correcting itself because the Oceanic 6 "shouldn't have left." No one remembers a plane crash so maybe they got pulled into 1977 and the plane crashed in 2008?

[0ni0n]

Yeah, I think it's us not understanding how the wheel works that is confusing things. I have a feeling they won't delve into it either, just that "It's the exit off the island" and "When you use it, you get dumped into the future."

We don't know what caused the flash on 316's flight. Maybe it was the island course correcting itself because the Oceanic 6 "shouldn't have left." No one remembers a plane crash so maybe they got pulled into 1977 and the plane crashed in 2008?

I think the plane just disappeared in 2008 and reappeared in 1977 then subsequently crashed. Regarding how locke came back to life, your guess is as good as mine.

[Moosey]

I don't think the plane is in 1977, only the O6 are. They went to the hydra station, which i'm sure would be occupied by dharma at that time if it were 1977.

[AzazaelFenrir]

I thought they said that time traveled slower on the island? I am thinking back to one of the Eps when the freighter just showed up and how Faraday was doing things like talking on the radio and how he had the missile fired. Am I completely off point here?

[0ni0n]

I thought they said that time traveled slower on the island? I am thinking back to one of the Eps when the freighter just showed up and how Faraday was doing things like talking on the radio and how he had the missile fired. Am I completely off point here?

That's what I thought too. There really could be two explanations. One is that elaborated in my previous posts where there are two separate timelines, the other is that there is only one timeline but the island is on a different point in time. It's too convoluted for me to venture any meaningful guesses.

[Karshe]

We don't really know what the deal is, just that somehow the island is out of sync with the rest of the world, it seems. I had forgotten about Faraday's test rocket... but you can't say "time is slower" as a general statement, because there are things like the freighter's doctor washing up on shore before he died.

Then there are things that just haven't been explained yet (and I hope they haven't forgotten about...) like Charlotte giving Faraday memory tests and him not doing well on them.

[Jer]

You only experience the dilation effects if you do not approach the island in the correct way.

The Ajira plane did not travel back in time to drop off the O6

Spoiler: show

(minus Sun from all reports?)

, once they reached the Island's 'airspace' they were just flashed away like Sawyer's group had been.