Paladin subs while leveling.

[Max™]

I know the general thing is just /War and vokebot, cause it ain't broke, so why fix it.

So first question is, what level did you start using /Nin more often in exp?... I'm loathe to trade voke + the added damage potential when I get to ZOMG SPAM COLIBRI levels, since my best bet will be to do my usual thing while trying to kick the birds ass as hard as I can.

Merits, well... lolpldmeritparty, so I kinda know the answer... mostly curious there.

Next question and my main one is this:

Has anyone else tried Pld/Dnc in exp?

I was doing FoV's and got an invite, and figured I'd just stick with the sub for a change.

With no refresh, 2 Sam's and a Drk at first, then a Drg on Garlaige bats mostly/beetles here and there from 46~49 (sync cap was 48 I think), plus a Dnc + Whm that mostly just hasted/erased, I kept the mob glued on me despite them going crazy with the distortions and shit.

We were only really limited on chain speed by the attack down getting spammed, as the Dnc and later Sam would just go pull while I had like 40 mp.

Dealt with multiple 2 bat pulls fine as well, beetles were a bit of an MP drain just because we had no dispel so the fights dragged... but even then it stayed on me like I was soloing it.

Flash the pull, if Sent is up wait a sec for Flash recast to drop second flash in Sent, Bash if Sent is down, and pop Holy Circle with more aggressive MP+TP curing when both are down.

Animated Flourish, then alternate quickstep and waltzing myself between flash recasts til I get 2 or 3 finishing moves up and hoard TP for the next fight.

If TP is low, use MP for cures and build it up, if MP is low (I was under 150 out of my 300 total for the vast majority of the party just because they never gave me more than a tic on my rump) use TP for cures and save MP for flashes.

I partied there once with Pld/War and a Rdm, and I still didn't feel as comfortable with my hate spam, and still had to ask them to stop pulling like a meripo several times.


I know at 50+ that I'm losing out on a good chunk of damage potential between Double Attack and Zerk, Defender helps some... but it's still just Defense, so it comes down to a bit more damage output + defender/voke, vs basically endless cure hate + 2 step flourish.

Never mind that I just noticed in Kanican's enmity tables that Spectral Jig has 300 VE... totally going to spam that in my hate cycle now.

[Ultimagi]

I've never found Holy Circle to generate any Enmity. I tried using it when Provoke was down at the start of a party and melee hits still took hate off me.

[Max™]

It's just a JA use for +1 CE (before enm mods) and 20 VE.. though I'm pretty sure it's 20 VE per person hit, so 120 + Enm mods isn't huge, but hell, it's a free JA.

I totally didn't know Spectral was 300 VE for an instant use 30 second ability... gonna slot that into a macro somewhere.


Invincible 1 7200
Holy Circle 1 20
Shield Bash 1 900
Sentinel 1 1800
Cover 1 0 35
Rampart 1 300

+

War:
Provoke 1 1800
Berserk 1 80
Defender 1 80
Warcry 1 300

Dnc:
Animated Flourish 1 1500
Spectral Jig 1 300
Sambas 1 300
TP based Waltzes which follow the curing enmity formula

I didn't see in the testing if 1500 is the total for 1 step or 2 steps, oh and Steps generate 1 CE per landed.

[evilpaul]

Holy Circle's enmity is based on how many people on the mob's hate list it hits and isn't that large even if you hit 6 people.

If /DNC is working well, I'd continue to use it. Other than fire breathing crawlers and maybe spiders most EXP mobs don't hit particularly hard.

My friend who leveled PLD not too long ago switched to /NIN once he hit ToAU levels and it seemed to work OK. Flash and Shield Mastery seemed to make Ichi recasts not bad. I'm sure it helped he always fought Elegy'd mobs too. I wouldn't bother with it unless you have lots of Haste obviously.

[Max™]

Yeah, Circle is just part of my micro-managing hate, as noted I use more aggressive MP curing + Waltzes when Sent and Bash aren't up to pop me up on the hate list early.

Imma hate those bhaflau Colibri, my reflex is to flash as soon as I can reach the mob (it's a good deal longer reach than Voke, and the sooner you land the first one, the sooner the second comes up), but I'm a flash whore.

[Isawa]

I've never exped as pld/dnc but I have exped in a party with one. They had trouble holding hate, but they were in a party with heavy DD.

[Ultimagi]

I wonder if Light Arts would increase Flash and Cure efficiency enough to warrant the loss of Provoke...

[Max™]

Sounds like he might have been trying to WS and not abusing waltzes/landing steps.

I figure I could do a 80 Dmg RLB, a randomly decent Fast Blade, or get 5 hate building cures for 75~80 HP a piece which were uninterruptible + steps/flourishes/jig.

I had a tricked Elv F Sam/War who'd manage to turn it now and then when she'd close the other guys Distortion with a big doubled Enpi/unresisted SC... but I got it back on me fast, a Sam/Thf who would randomly make it twitch now and then, a Drk who started making a contest with me since I said /Dnc rocks.

At one point he does a LR SE WS, spams stun and absorbs and pops BW too.

I just laughed and covered him.

[Starby]

Me and my best friend IRL leveled PLD/NIN from 37 to 75, just bringing out the big swords and going full DD all the way.

It was a ton of fun. We never experienced less than 9k/hr except for the hell hole that is Quicksand Caves.

Treating exp as a merit party all the way up works, you just need to make sure all your DDs have a way to protect themselves because they WILL pull hate off of you as PLD/NIN.

I'm currently leveling SAM(Hit 50 last night.) with a static RDM(My PLD/NIN friend.) and another PLD who we finally convinced to change to /NIN because of T.M. Espadons.

I love PLD/NIN for exp, but I can't really speak for /DNC. I tossed the idea around a little bit, but it always ended up with the same conclusion that if hate gets too stuck on one person, that person will end up dying eventually.




As for merits, I recently took out my PLD to a merit pt and parsed ~22.5% in a party of 4 DDs, the highest on the parse being a SAM at ~26%. Granted the DDs weren't exactly the highest caliber available, but it's still not bad considering that I did ~35% of the curing and all the first flashing.

[Tsuko_Asura]

There was a fellow on KI who leveled his Paladin 37-75 as PLD/NIN with a shield, and it seemed to work quite well. You could probably run a search and find the thread still, he had detailed accounts of his experience.

[Max™]

I'd rather DD as Pld/War with a shield/voke than dual wield swords anyway >.<.

I never considered dual wielding actually, shield blocks during ichi = ftw.

As for /Dnc, what if the person with too much hate... is me? :D

You pull hate off me? Flash/Cover/Cure II~III~IV/Waltz I~II/Flourish/Jig... I got ya covered.

If I was gonna do the DD Pld thing, I couldn't resist trying out Pld/Sam Gsword since it's capped from War anyway... and I could ride Hasso full time without caring + pop S/TE as I wished.

[Starby]

Like you said, if /war ain't broke don't fix it, was just offering my own insight on what I did with PLD. I'm completely addicted to /NIN for PLD, It offers a really good mix of offense and the best defense a person could ask for. Once you hit 50 I'd suggest trying it out for a change of pace to see if you like it.

I have no idea how it would work as solo PLD/NIN though, since me and my buddy were both PLD and there was almost always someone with Cover or Flash up to mitigate damage.

[Max™]

Well, I'll probably try it out if I get in a lowbie TP burn setup where bounce tanking some is the best way through things, like a couple War/Nin's and myself...

Even then though, I've got like 340ish MP with no merits and a Cassie earring on at 52, if they were pulling hate off me a lot, I'd rather be able to do something with my subjob besides avoid taking damage that I'm not taking anyway.

[Eurell]

/DNC i think would just lose out on too much dmg potential. And although your hate would still be solid, the fights would be longer. Holding (probably the same) slightly better hate isnt worth slowing down the kills imo.

[Darkmoon]

PLD/DNC with Mercurial Sword was fun for a few levels when you have some DDs that just rip hate off you, you can basically get retarded ammounts of TP very fast and be a good cure bot. I leveled my PLD in a static, so I got to play around with this a little on some camps where we hit a lot of speed VT grind.

[Max™]

Well, atm my TP goes to shitty WSes, but even considering the kill speed loss you have to remember a key thing about the sub: it's kinda like having a refresher hidden up your butt. They were literally pulling the first bats they saw, and grabbing beetles if they didn't see bats/beetles were in the way.

Gave me at most a tic on my rump between fights. As long as I conserved MP for Flashes and spammed waltzes/got tossed a cure now and then if I happened to get low on TP and MP (goddamn level sync clearing TP sucks).

I built TP on the entrance mobs while the last couple members arrived, and then remembered 300% TP and 5 steps goes bye bye when we get synced, even if I'm the level of the sync.

Last night after raising a friend I helped get a coffer key in Torai (I swear he looked about ready to cry when he died in there and didn't realize I could raise him on Pld by running back through the walls entrance), I went and poked one of the VT Impish Bats. I'm confident I could solo em pretty easily if I started with TP, but the initial MP drain from trying to build TP took it's toll after the second sentinel I got off, so I bashed and zoned.

[Scuzzelbutt]

I had a JP PLD come /DNC to an exp party. I told him to go change jobs please and he said I don't have that subjob in auto trans. I told him to please leave the party. He called me a noob and left pretty much.

Lv. 37 on Birds in East Ron. [S]


Edit: I didn't know he was /DNC until the first fight was over. I just I shoulda asked? I just assumed /WAR was well the standard since released.

[Tulun]

I'm sure in some set ups /nin would work fine and they can sort of DD (with a thief this might work well), but /war is the way to go.

Against great DDs, you won't be able to hold hate for the whole fight, but if you can do it for most of it, you are saving a ton of mp. I find it'll also allow the DDs to go more aggressive (and use more aggressive subs) and net more exp/hour anyway.

It works

[Lahan]

my 2 cents.

I did pld/war all they way. I am too hung on my voke to tank. but from 65, 66 on the dd got WS that made me just a whm that could take a hit lol. after I got 70+ and got some better + hate gear I can hold hate decently well unless you just try and hurt my feelings..
damn drk's and their guillotine's. mean mnks and their asuran fists...

I have played with pld/nin solo screwing off and it fun to have 2 swords but /dnc on some crazy NM's u can live damn near for ever specially if u have joy. If i tank a nm for someone i always just go /war. I have no hate + merits pld not my full time main I did it for fun so /nin is hard for me to hold hate with. Mad props to those pld/nin that hold the hate well you all rock.

[willriker]

I have seen pld/dnc out into the 50's. When played properly that subjob is a monster. As for higher than that, i cant really tell you which is better ( /war or /dnc). I cannot speak highly enough about this subjob. In my mind, it blows /war out of the water.

Also, i would hold off on /nin until a tank simply isnt needed. Usualy 74+. Sometimes less than 74, depending on the quality of party members. Once you reach the point where a tank is just not needed, youll know it LOL. At that point pop on nin sub and make like a War main with cure, flash, and helpful JA.