Paladin subs while leveling.

[LinktheDeme]

I pld/nin until 73 cant remember but it was exactly when I got joyeuse and justice to dual wield. I'm not sure how many people are good at holding hate though. I think at 70+ when your just killing imps pld/nin is the way to go because you wont have voke anyway and they die so fast that if you didn't do it at that level then your just failing at tanking because its practically merits then ( I had a whole DD PLD set up as well dusk gloves ws set and all i tended to out parse the parties i tanked for )

[Max™]

Well, I've got the DD shit covered, 4/5 Heca, Joytoy/WS rings/gorgets/backs/macros/merits, but I imagine a lot of my 70's will be fuckin around see what I can and can't handle in Campaign yet, and partying when I get invited randomly.

I know /Dnc well from War/Dnc, but as for losing Voke... /Dnc gives Voke! Step, 15 seconds, Step, Animated Flourish! Except I am reducing the mobs acc/def too.

I got Enmity gear out the butt though, and 68 is I.R. time remember, speaking of which, Imma go campaign and get my hands.

[Hosom]

PLD/DNC with Mercurial Sword was fun for a few levels when you have some DDs that just rip hate off you, you can basically get retarded ammounts of TP very fast and be a good cure bot. I leveled my PLD in a static, so I got to play around with this a little on some camps where we hit a lot of speed VT grind.

We had this before /Dnc, it was called Spirit Taker, V Cloak, and P Gorget >.>;

[Syntex]

It's just a JA use for +1 CE (before enm mods) and 20 VE.. though I'm pretty sure it's 20 VE per person hit, so 120 + Enm mods isn't huge, but hell, it's a free JA.

I totally didn't know Spectral was 300 VE for an instant use 30 second ability... gonna slot that into a macro somewhere.


Invincible 1 7200
Holy Circle 1 20
Shield Bash 1 900
Sentinel 1 1800
Cover 1 0 35
Rampart 1 300

+

War:
Provoke 1 1800
Berserk 1 80
Defender 1 80
Warcry 1 300

Dnc:
Animated Flourish 1 1500
Spectral Jig 1 300
Sambas 1 300
TP based Waltzes which follow the curing enmity formula

I didn't see in the testing if 1500 is the total for 1 step or 2 steps, oh and Steps generate 1 CE per landed.

Where are you getting this info?

Might you know the CE of a sleepI&II/blind/stun/dispel/CureIII&IV? Assuming no enmity?

[Max™]

Kanican/Kaeko's enmity testing., read it, know it, tank like Jesus.

[Aragon of Odin]

Been leveling PLD myself over the past 1.5 months. Don't have /DNC because the thing I HATE most about this game is leveling pre 37, so haven't bothered with DNC yet.

Been /WAR the whole time in a static of Rdm, Brd, Drg, Rng, Rng and Pld. The melee in my static are freaking monsters, especially when you hit 50 and start doing the Colibri camps, then when you hit 55 and they get Sidewinder. I haven't had probelms holding hate that much, just the times when my buddy pulls with a 700-1600 Baragge you will realize the importance of having voke right off the bat to go along with your other JA's. /Dnc would of been fun to try but I knew /War was gonna be fine the whole way.

I found that when over hunting it was much easier to hold hate, but when you're under hunting then it gets a little harder but still managable as /War.

[Max™]

The only real advantage of /War over /Dnc, is Berserk and Double Attack. Keeping steps up isn't hard when you get in the rhythm of it, 15 second step timer, 30 second flourish, 2 steps = Provoke.

I hate super overhunting, yeah it's easy to keep hate, but it's slower and I like keeping busy when I'm tanking.

[Aragon of Odin]

Only problem I'd see with steps then is once we hit Colibri on average they were dying before provoke was up again. Same with Imps, if it wasn't for Amnesia preventing WS's at the beggining of fight's most of the time they wouldn't last 30 secs. But our Drg and Rng SC a lot, Fragmentation was doing anywhere from 400-650, I believe it was Penta to Sidewinder they were using.

I like voke because it's big hate at the very beggining of the fight which is when I need it most, so long as I could hold it for the first little bit while they got TP I was fine, cause their WS's and SC's would drop the mobs in a flash.

[Syntex]

Kanican/Kaeko's enmity testing., read it, know it, tank like Jesus.

Holy shit how did I not see this before?

Thanks for the kickass link,...

BRB spending then next 2 days reading this 50 times...

EDIT: Is the Enmity Testing (Part IX) available to you guys? I get a "Log in to view this" message and when I do I then get "Forbidden" message. Is it not out yet or am I just getting an error? Also anyone able to provide a working link or post the info?

And sorry Max for sorta derailing, I gotta read this then I will try and help you out.

[Max™]

Not a prob, it's what got me interested in Pld sorta, knowing what exactly is happening makes managing hate a lot easier.

For Coli's, between Feather Tickle and squishiness, I'll probably go /War just for the added damage.

[Eurell]

It sounds a bit like you just wanna tell us how much /dnc is better rather than even consider going back to /war lol =P. I'm sure its fine, but if /war can hold hate almost as (or just as) decent as /dnc AND speed up kills which means more EXP per hour (which I would think is the main goal).. then Idk why anyone would want to use anything different.

If you've used both, and /dnc is better EXP for everyone in the party, then go with that. If not, give /war another chance.

[Ultimagi]

What if increasing your damage output isn't the only factor? What if your party only has 1 healer, and limited or no Refresh? Subbing Dancer would excel in that type of situation, since you can Cure more without using MP, causing less down time.

[Liquidedust]

What if increasing your damage output isn't the only factor? What if your party only has 1 healer, and limited or no Refresh? Subbing Dancer would excel in that type of situation, since you can Cure more without using MP, causing less down time.

Basically:

The more damage you deal the less curing would be needed since things die faster. (less mp needed)

The less damage you deal the more curing would be needed since things die slower. (more mp needed)

Basically the more you gear for support the slower your pt will overall kill since your focus isn't on killing stuff faster, but rather keeping you alive for as long as possible. The best is to find the ideal balance between DD and mp recovery that suits the party the best.

Personally I went DDPLD 60->70 and it worked out great (this is even pre-toau mind you, without fancy stuff like auto-refresh bonuses etc . . .).

These days from 50~60 onwards in ToAU areas with around 3-4 mp refresh a tick without a refresher a PLD can borderline main-heal a party as a frontline melee supporter (parade gorget, VCloak, Sanction refresh, Staff and Spirit Taker).

[Max™]

Well, I'm also looking into doing some Pld/Sam Great Sword stuff in the frenetic TP burn levels cause I got it capped/the gear to do it well.

Pld/War is nice, but Pld/Dnc is seriously overlooked for an exp sub especially if you don't have a refresher available.

Hell, I started leveling Rdm when I restarted with a few IRL friends years ago, just because they had a static with a Pld. Wound up hating Rdm, but it still sticks in my head how easy it is going from Pld/War + no refresh, to Pld/War + refresh, to Pld/Dnc + no refresh.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Would you say that this only really starts to be viable at 40+?

[Max™]

Well, I did FoV's which flew me from 26 > 40+ fast as hell, but once you get Animated Flourish, yeah in any party without a refresher, you'd probably do much better at keeping hate AND chains going with /Dnc.

That's the key upside, yeah you contribute less damage, but you're able to keep it off other people and heal forever essentially.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Yeah, I figured as much. My PLD is 37 at the moment from needing it for RDM subjob, and my WAR is like.. 13 >_>; And I have no desire to level that to 37 right now.

Also, probably a dumb question, but FoV?

[Shouta]

I`ve always been partial to PLD/WAR since it was my first job back when the game launched and was my main for a long time.

One silly combo that I never got to try much was a PLD/WAR using a Company sword and as much haste and accuracy gear as possible. Attack food, BRDs, etc and see how well a really fast swinging 56 damage sword is for DDing. I only got to try it once ages ago but I`d love to try it again someday.

PLD/DNC sounds like a fun proposition though, I think I may try that soon since it`s been awhile since I`ve played PLD for anything other than a last minute healer.

[Max™]

Fields of Valor, those books by the original zone OP's up to Xarc.