Street Fighter IV

[KuaiEQ]

Why does PSN update on thursday I want sakuras alt 10 costumes now

[Guitarman]

Still no xbox live demo for this? I love street fighter but i'm on the fence until i can at least test it for myself.

[Scunsion]

Here in Sri Lanka my friend Jim is the best SF4 player that has ever lived ever. What? You motherfuckers have never heard of Jim? Heh, you guys must be noobs. Jim doesn't play on a shitty TE stick like you scrubs, he made his own out of a racket ball and a Popsicle stick. Did I mention Jim only has 2 fingers? Yea that's right. I asked Jim, "Yo Jim how you so good?" He said "When you have 2 fingers and 1 billion dollars you HAVE to get good." Also cuz Jim only has two fingers that fucker has to ultra with his entire wrist. I bet you bg scrubs can't even ultra and you guys got all 5 of your fingers. Anyway, Jim and I will be at Evo if you guys wanna get some money matches in SF4 or Primal Rage, and trust me its only gonna take two fingers to own JWong, PEACE.

[Sol-Blackguy]

While this is true to an extent there are just some characters across fighting games who are undeniably weak, either by design (Dan) or because they simply don't have much in terms of offense or mix-up abilities (Ibuki from 3rd Strike immediately comes to mind). Low tier characters are fo' real.

Dan is a horrible example to go on. He's meant to be an homage to the recurring inside joke about Capcom and SNK's rivalry. SNK made Ryo to poke at Ryu and Capcom retaliated with Dan to make fun of Ryo. Sure there's other characters that are low-tier, but it doesn't mean they suck completely. There's always going to be someone who's going to pick up that character either for the lulz, to handicap themselves because they're too good, or because they see something nobody else sees. Kind of why I tend to main the slower more powerful characters that have those nasty throws. The guy that laughed when I picked Zangeif 2 days ago wasn't laughing too hard when he ate that Final Atomic Buster in the 3rd round.

[Weltall]

Ever since I first learned Balrog's turn punches can go through fireballs, (SFII?)
I never believed in Tiers either. It seems that people take them to literally when most of them are based on CPU vs. CPU match play just to give you an idea of who might have the slight advantage. In the end personal skill and strategy conquers all.

I

Since when are tiers decided by CPU vs CPU? They are the exact opposite.

A great example:

Ibuki 2nd Impact = God tier

Ibuki 3rd Strike = Med to Low (Non-existent from high tourneys basically)

It is not impacted by someone's skill with the character. It is determined by countless factors, none of which being CPU vs CPU. Someone that understands tiers can spend the time explaining if they like.

I'll toss these out quick:

Mixups
Resets / Infinites (ie- Ibuki had 3 in 2nd impact, and 0 in 3rd strike)
Assists
Frame Priority (This is a huge one, and why Chun Li is god tier in 3rd strike because of B+FP)
Air ability
Triangle jump ability (not all games)
Trap
Dash (Ie- Ibuki had a super dash in 2nd Impact, and was taken away in 3rd strike)
etc
etc
etc

[Akanei]

I never believed in Tiers either. It seems that people take them to literally when most of them are based on CPU vs. CPU match play just to give you an idea of who might have the slight advantage.

....What?

No, they're not. They're built around tournament results (bracket matchups and rankings) before anything else, then people investigate why they're ranking/winning/losing as they are. For example, just because x character may have an infinite, doesn't mean that it can be performed in any match, even if you know how to set it up; conversely, an easy infinite would be the reason why the character doesn't rank lower. Computer matches are retarded and mean absolutely nothing, that's true, but that's why you don't use them in tier list building.

The misconception that gives anyone who has even the slightest common sense a headache is that people equate God/Top to instant win.

[Sol-Blackguy]

Still no xbox live demo for this? I love street fighter but i'm on the fence until i can at least test it for myself.

See if there's an arcade that has it where you live. I just happen to stumble across one last week and I'm having a blast. Only problem is there's more characters on the home console release.

Here in Sri Lanka my friend Jim is the best SF4 player that has ever lived ever. What? You motherfuckers have never heard of Jim? Heh, you guys must be noobs. Jim doesn't play on a shitty TE stick like you scrubs, he made his own out of a racket ball and a Popsicle stick. Did I mention Jim only has 2 fingers? Yea that's right. I asked Jim, "Yo Jim how you so good?" He said "When you have 2 fingers and 1 billion dollars you HAVE to get good." Also cuz Jim only has two fingers that fucker has to ultra with his entire wrist. I bet you bg scrubs can't even ultra and you guys got all 5 of your fingers. Anyway, Jim and I will be at Evo if you guys wanna get some money matches in SF4 or Primal Rage, and trust me its only gonna take two fingers to own JWong, PEACE.

I missed this when it was first posted and just wanted to say.... lmfao

....What?

No, they're not. They're built around tournament results (bracket matchups and rankings) before anything else, then people investigate why they're ranking/winning/losing as they are. For example, just because x character may have an infinite, doesn't mean that it can be performed in any match, even if you know how to set it up; conversely, an easy infinite would be the reason why the character doesn't rank lower. Computer matches are retarded and mean absolutely nothing, that's true, but that's why you don't use them in tier list building.

The misconception that gives anyone who has even the slightest common sense a headache is that people equate God/Top to instant win.

However tiers are made, whether it's a tourney groupie and their 2 friends, recurring results from tournaments, or someone trolling with "lolz you can't win because you're using a low-tier character" it's still annoying to say this character is better than that character. If that holds true under every circumstance, then it shows a huge lack in character balance that should have been resolved during the development stage. (Cinder from Killer Instinct comes to mind)
I bolded your last statement for the truth because how many times have you lost to a good Blanka, E. Honda, or Dan player and argued that you should have won because you're using a god-tier character. Omfg, I'm going to win because everyone says this character has infinites and a frame advantage, YEAH!! If everyone followed tiers like it's the bible, we'd be playing Ryu and Ken IV, not Street Fighter IV.

[quannum]

OFIYAL AKOOMA ANT GOOKEN GUYD NO SRS GUYZ OFICYAL

[Milks]

I never had any problem unlocking Gouken and Akuma, and unlocked both on first attempts. :\

[Weltall]

See if there's an arcade that has it where you live. I just happen to stumble across one last week and I'm having a blast. Only problem is there's more characters on the home console release.



I missed this when it was first posted and just wanted to say.... lmfao



However tiers are made, whether it's a tourney groupie and their 2 friends, recurring results from tournaments, or someone trolling with "lolz you can't win because you're using a low-tier character" it's still annoying to say this character is better than that character. If that holds true under every circumstance, then it shows a huge lack in character balance that should have been resolved during the development stage. (Cinder from Killer Instinct comes to mind)
I bolded your last statement for the truth because how many times have you lost to a good Blanka, E. Honda, or Dan player and argued that you should have won because you're using a god-tier character. Omfg, I'm going to win because everyone says this character has infinites and a frame advantage, YEAH!! If everyone followed tiers like it's the bible, we'd be playing Ryu and Ken IV, not Street Fighter IV.

In most games you are absolutely right.... tiers are stuck to.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 = Mag/Storm/Sentinel/Cable/Random Assist -(Psylocke/Cyclops). There is only 3-4 characters out of X huge number that are played.

In 3rd strike the % is just as bad. The game IS Ken vs. Chun Li vs Yun.

It doesn't MATTER if it annoys you, because that is the way it IS.

NO, not every one follows tiers to the Bible, and in 95% of cases, THEY LOSE. (Assuming its strong players, not random Y person you played on Xbox Live and beat with Dan)

@Akanei -Thank God, someone who knows what he or she is talking about for once on here.

[KuaiEQ]

OFIYAL AKOOMA ANT GOOKEN GUYD NO SRS GUYZ OFICYAL

first attacks lawl

[tommygunnz]

In most games you are absolutely right.... tiers are stuck to.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 = Mag/Storm/Sentinel/Cable/Random Assist -(Psylocke/Cyclops). There is only 3-4 characters out of X huge number that are played.

In 3rd strike the % is just as bad. The game IS Ken vs. Chun Li vs Yun.

It doesn't MATTER if it annoys you, because that is the way it IS.

NO, not every one follows tiers to the Bible, and in 95% of cases, THEY LOSE. (Assuming its strong players, not random Y person you played on Xbox Live and beat with Dan)

@Akanei -Thank God, someone who knows what he or she is talking about for once on here.

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about too and apparently 24 hours is not enough time for you to muster up a summary on why Rog is low tier in SF4. Hell I probably went 60 and maybe 3 with Rog tonight easily lol. I could almost bet I am 100+ wins 10 losses total Rogwise, now I play a pretty good Rog, but not THAT fucking good. Yes I understand online is different because most everyone sucks and sometimes you get some delay, but that many matches idc what anyone says, you can still perform just fine in most of them.

I am the type of person who is, well basically a dick, and until you retract this ridiculous statement and admit you were wrong or come up with a report on why he is low tier that makes sense (it won't) I am personally not going to let this die. I can be cocky on this thread because I know I will wreck any of these people at SF4, but the more I read your posts and see you dodging shit I wonder, can you?

Your very next post I trust you will adress this matter.

Tommythepostman is my gamertag for anyone that wants some matches, I won't be a dick I promise, I am down for some fun, but fuck Id love to get some matches in with Welltall.

[BRP]

Still no xbox live demo for this? I love street fighter but i'm on the fence until i can at least test it for myself.

Have you played SF2? There, you tested it.

[Scunsion]

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about too and apparently 24 hours is not enough time for you to muster up a summary on why Rog is low tier in SF4.

balrog = ibuki man didn't you know

[Milks]

Guides: Street Fighter 4 Tiers — Character Rankings -- EventHubs.com

While no tier list is official, I'd say you're all retarded for arguing over it.

[Weltall]

I am in break in another meeting, so I will try to get in what I can concerning Balrog. I will add to this later:

1. All tiers lists will evolve and eventually reach a maturity stage.
-Example: MVC2 tier list. For the first few YEARS, Blackheart was considered top tier and most tourney players used some combination of Cable/BH/Mag/Storm/Cyclops. Eventually BH was phased out completely for Doom, and then Doom was phased out for Sentinel. Players discovered how abusable the shadow fly was with Sentinel, and the order of tiers hasn't changed since.

2. Concerning Balrog SF4:
- We compared Balrog to other characters that could dash, or SA, through Sagat/Ryu. Cammy/Bison/Zangief were all characters we listed with the same ability and more upside. Each of these characters have more flexibility: Cammy has a air grab which is huge in SF4 and a low SA, Bison is just better overall in the air, on the ground, and has more chains, and Zangief is Zangief. I would like to hear pushback if you have any concerning these 3 characters.

3. Japan tier list:
-Japan tourney players play MUCH differently from American tourney players.
-Example: MVC2 US , the most played assist is Psylocke for Mag+Storm teams. In Japan, the clear choice is Cyclops or Tron. Tron is used by like, 1~2, US players on the team? Like 90% of JP Mag+Storm uses Tron.

4. EventHubs tier list is JP input only and lacks several characters. Adding more characters will push others down.

5. Balrog has no frame advantage in throws for a fisher who has to find his way inside / dash inside. Upon wakeup, he has no clear advantage where Bison / Zangief does.

6. Balrog's ultra is too easily avoidable. Much like Akuma's in SF4. Any block will catch it and it gives opponent jump time even at closer distances. This brought him down a little in our opinion.

7. Will players like JWong, Sanford, Gootecks be able to beat you with Balrog? Yes, all day. Some players are just on a God-like level.

8. Safe moves: the number of safe moves Balrog has compared to players we placed higher on the chart. Vega is one of the only characters with less.
AFK finish this later. break over

[Akanei]

Cammy/Bison/Zangief were all characters we listed with the same ability and more upside. Each of these characters have more flexibility: Cammy has a air grab which is huge in SF4 and a low SA, Bison is just better overall in the air, on the ground, and has more chains, and Zangief is Zangief.

To address Dic and 'Gief:

Dic's air game is garbage. Stomp can be dash evaded and almost all of his aerials are low priority. Crusher can be stuffed or traded with any decent priority standing medium or fierce.. hell, you can throw him out of it.

'Gief can't beat anyone with a long-range fierce, period. f. RH from Sagat punishes him all day, everyday. In fact, the matchups Balrog wins out are the characters that 'Gief can't get close to.

What makes Balrog good (and subsequently place well) is that his ex dashes have hyper armor and the best thing most characters can do once he starts throwing the punch in his dash (normal and ex) is trade hits, or waste an ex to beat/match it. His ticking game is rediculously powerful, too. He can punish charge characters and get in the face of just about any character in the game.

[Weltall]

Yes, Sakura's FK is incredible as well against Zangief, which is a reason we placed her so high. Her FP+EX K + JUMP FP FP FP is over 40% of the meter for a chain which can be jumped into or used upon wakeup. The only thing you have to watch for is timing and placement on the EX kick, you can sometimes accidently jump over the opponent and miss the launcher if you mess up.

The FP FP FP after launcher can also be skipped and you can just chain into the Ultra (you must have her foot hit the exact moment your opponent is landing on the ground, you want the animation to start when the opponent's body is at head level of Sakura)

Edit- And yes, Bison's air game isn't the best, but that wasn't the point. The point was he has a better air game, and various more options, when compared to Balrog's AG.

Edit 2 - Added more to my above post, but now back to work.

Edit 3- Sakura combo for you to try:

Jump in FK, standing FP, EX kicks, Air jump move (forgot name, its shoryuken motion+K), FP, FP, (Skip 3rd FP here, fall to ground), Ultra at head level. Hard to pull off unless you are on the correct screen position.

Edit 4- >_> Sorry. To beat any Giefer online, just throw hadoken, let them do the spin to avoid it, and sweep or ultra them in the frame they can't block. Almost all noob Giefs online will fall for this. The same goes for the null attack he has.

[Darus Grey]

Dic's air game is garbage. Stomp can be dash evaded and almost all of his aerials are low priority. Crusher can be stuffed or traded with any decent priority standing medium or fierce.. hell, you can throw him out of it.

If you dash out of head-stomp then you're setting yourself up for a slide. Plus if you're using it as anti-hadouken/tiger, if you time it right before the fireball you'll land when they're just finishing the animation and can't block it. If they try to tigerU/shoryuken stomp takes priority unless they do it *before* you stomp on the last frames(and it often results in you both taking damage, not a counter).

Bison's "air game" almost seems OP because at best the good counter-measures still put you in a bad position, and for any fireball character a good bison can really control the field.

[Akanei]

If you dash out of head-stomp then you're setting yourself up for a slide. Plus if you're using it as anti-hadouken/tiger, if you time it right before the fireball you'll land when they're just finishing the animation and can't block it. If they try to tigerU/shoryuken stomp takes priority unless they do it *before* you stomp on the last frames(and it often results in you both taking damage, not a counter).

Dashing out of stomp has absolutely 0 repercussion, unless you happen to be 'Gief or 'Sim. At full-screen, he can't follow up with anything, short of a charge move, which is long since blockable/counterable at that point; mid-screen, he can sweep you, but that's still blockable or fadc-able and you can punish him for doing that.

Timing it on a fireball will almost never work at full-screen (and with some characters, even mid-screen), unless they're spamming fierce FBs all day, which is a retarded strategy, in the first place. Anyone decent will know that's the only thing you can do, if you can't ex scissors and will simply bait it, anyway.

Edit: Regardless, I think Devil's Reverse is a far better aerial game, anyway, while stomp is best used to bait anti-airs.