Sam info?

[Drex]

I like mamool myself, and wouldn't use polearm there

[blev]

We are talking about NOW. I basically used soboro as a skill up weapon.

here's what you said before

I think people that say soboro is great probably didn't have polearm capped from 55-65.

you didn't mention "now" in there anywhere. you just said from 55-65, which could have been at any point in time after soboro was added to the game. if you want to refer to the "now", it is still a great weapon from 55-65. while you may do slightly better with polearm on birds, due to the extra piercing dmg, soboro still has great DoT because of the multi-hits. it shines even more while soloing @ 75 as /dnc because of how quickly you build TP to heal yourself.

[Zilong]

In retrospect, I could have used polearm then, but the selection is made of ass, and I had 8 merits on GKT for Yuki at 57, so meh.

Didn't help we went on random places during 55-65 like mamook's mamools, or places with partial non piercing mob like graveyard's qiqirn and imps on daytime while roaming murre, or colibris/eruca/troll camp near halvung.

[swiss-shiva]

if its sooOOooo much better why am I always tanking? The hagun people are super way cooler and they should be doing sooo much more dmg that it should not even notice me according to you.

Who need tank in merit party?

Sure, your Usu is probably better if you always wait till 300 tp for ws lol

[swiss-shiva]

sky:
Byakko's are irreplaceable. Prioritize them. Only thing that can make them 'meh' is full Usukane.
Osode is your best WS body for Y/G/K
Shura head/legs are good. They both have alternatives available.

Nah , you better stick with hauby+1 for ws. Its not worth to sacrifice accuracy for few extra damage.

[Kimkytaru]

I dont even think Osode gives extra dmg compares to Hauby +1 from the number I've seen in KI. Or you'll see more extra dmg but you'll miss more ws too. Personnaly I would rather do 10 dmg less on ws but instead of missing 2 ws each 20 ws I miss only 1.

[Raineer]

Gonna throw this in this thread since it seems like a decent place, maybe the help I get can help a lurker as well...

SAM, newly to 75. SAM merits are capped GKT and +4 Store TP so far. Currently using Onimaru, yup Hagun is in the works but not possible at the current time. I'm back after a loooong break in the game so I'm building gil reserves again, I don't mind spending money but have to be frugal for awhile. Also my first melee 75. Rip me wherever I need, and thanks:

Gear : TP / WS

Main : Onimaru / Pole Grip
Head : Turban / Shura
Neck : Chiv (I have PCC but need the STP for 6hit)
Ear1 : Fowlers
Ear2 : Brutal
Body : Haub (Have Shura (solo/evasion) but Haub 100% for merit right?)
Hands : Hachiman / Pallas
Ring1 : Rajas
Ring2 : Ecphoria / Ruby
Back : Amemet +1
Waist : Potent / Warwolf
Legs : Shura
Feet : Hachiman

[Kimkytaru]

Few easy things :

Make a swift belt pt and try to get one, it's really worth it even without Byakko Haidate, also with your setup I dont think you need the 1 store tp from your CC. Let me see :

25 based + 4 (merit) + 1 (brutal) + 5 (Rajas) + 8 (hachiman hands) + 5 (hachi feet) +1 (Ecphoria) = 49 STP which is more than enough for a 6 hit build that requieres 46 stp if I'm not mistaken and if onimaru is 450 delay. Only problem is that you'll most likely need to ws in that gear or nearly, can only spare 3 sTP.

So yeah use Peacock Charm, go to sea, farm some organ to get yourself a nice ws gorget for Gekko (better than sea torque). Head slot is fine, earring are fine, hauby is good too for body slot, hands is fine, however you could try for Alky, not so hard to farm with a friend and drop fluently enough to be able to get a pair each. Rings seems fine, back is good unless the new str bonus testing shows us that 3 str > 10 attack. As for the legs if you can get shura you should be able to get BH but shura will be fine for the time beeing, feet is good if you plan to use a 6 hit setup otherwise get yourself a pair of fuma w/e to tp and ws in hachiman.

[Raineer]

Thank you kindly for the reply.

Swift is high on my list, and I just happened to earn the second STP merit tonight and thought of that while I was posting. +46 was working to get to 100 from 0 but when I WS'd I only got 15 was sticking me at 99. Switching from PCC to Chiv fixed that. Thanks a bunch for such a thorough reply.

To verify, Snow Gorget is the one you're referring to? From what I found it would seem to help Gekko and Yuki, let me know if that is correct...sounds like a worthwhile time investment.

[Raen Ryong]

Nah , you better stick with hauby+1 for ws. Its not worth to sacrifice accuracy for few extra damage.

Accuracy bonus on singlehit WSs is very significant; capped at 95% it seems unless you're afflicted with Flash (from Obfuscate on Puks); it's unclear at this stage whether it's just a really huge accuracy bonus or whether it caps accuracy but Flash -acc is calculated after that (correct me if I'm wrong and I've missed some developments).

Osode is therefore better in 99% of situations.

[Kimkytaru]

It was shown that Hauby +1 was superior to Osode in all way. I need to check out for the KI thread if you dont believe me.

Umm yeah I guess you dont have enough stp when you ws wiht that, best suggestion would be to try to find a balance between Tping and Meleing, for example my tping set looks like that :

Hagun, pole, olibanum, walahra, Justice, Bushi, Brutal, Hauby, Hachiman, Sniper, Rajas, Amemet, Swift, Shura +1, Fuma's Bring me to 8 (merit) + 25 + 1 + 8 + 5 = 47 sTP, when I ws however I use :

Hagun, pole, olibanum, shura head, justice (In the process of getting a gorget), brutal, bushi, Osode, Alky, Flame ring, rajas, amemet, warwolf, shura +1, hachiman sune-ate which brings me at 8 + 25 + 1+ 5 +5 = 44 stp.

With this combination I got a 6 hit setup really close but it does work very good.

Yeah snow gorget is nice because it have gekko and yuki but have tachi:rana to in case you get it later on. It's nice and you dont only get a nice piece of equip but you'll get in the process exp too which is never bad, not to mention that sea organ drop rate arent that bad. You can duo easy the mob that drop organ (those with the lower drop rate tho) and might need some more help for yovra but nothing really that hard.

[swiss-shiva]

Accuracy bonus on singlehit WSs is very significant; capped at 95% it seems unless you're afflicted with Flash (from Obfuscate on Puks); it's unclear at this stage whether it's just a really huge accuracy bonus or whether it caps accuracy but Flash -acc is calculated after that (correct me if I'm wrong and I've missed some developments).

Osode is therefore better in 99% of situations.

Most of the samurais prefer to use Hauby+1, even with the GK skill at 304. Who is still using lolosode anyway, unless you are rng. Good luck with the ws accuracy with your osode at high evasion mob like mamool lurker or some HNM.

ps. may be you should get your sam to 75 first

[Brill Weave]

Lahan let it go dood. You're arguing a point that has been statistically proven multiple times. Pulling hate off your tank isn't an indicator of awesome Ushi is. It's an indicator that you have fairly decent gear and you're in a meripo. I've tanked in meripo's using just my Soboro. You should expect to pull hate and tank in meripos. If you were able to run the numbers you would see that Hagun is better than Ushi. Now whether you're defending the Ushi because you "notice" seemingly higher damage than Hagun, or if it's because you're attempting to justify not having a hagun, it doesn't really matter. Numbers don't lie.

You're arguing with people who have seen the numbers, and in some cases, participated in the testing itself. You're response is that you haven't seen better damage output. Tsuko and Zilong generally have good responses when it comes to equipment performance. I've also used both weapons extensively. I am like you, I have no parser available, I'm on PS2. I also noticed seemingly higher damage output by Ushi. I had a friend parse me with both weapons, and the hagun came out higher every time he parsed. You can continue to try to pilot the sinking ship, but you are wrong and people are attempting to show you that.

[swiss-shiva]

Get this

TP Gear>>>
weapon/sub : Hagun / pole grip
ammo: Black tathlum
head: ace's helm
neck: justice torque
earring: bushi/brutal
body: hauby+1
hands: dusk+1
ring: rajas/sniper+1
back: Cerby+1
waist:speed belt
legs:byakko's haidate
feet: usu feet

WS Gear>>>
weapon: same
ammo: same
head: shura+1
neck: snow/flame gorget
earring: same
body: same
hands: alky
ring: rajas/flame
back:same
waist:warwolf
legs:hachiryu
feet:rutter

Ta da! you are pimp now.

ps: Dont bother think about usu full set for TP set. Turtle wouldnt drop you any body piece.

[Kimkytaru]

ps: Dont bother think about usu full set for TP set. Turtle wouldnt drop you any body piece.

Dont talk about CC pls, it hurt enough already like that ><

[Raen Ryong]

It was shown that Hauby +1 was superior to Osode in all way. I need to check out for the KI thread if you dont believe me.

That math was correct before it was found that they give you a massive attack boost, hence greatly devaluing +Attack in the equation.

ps. may be you should get your sam to 75 first

I do not need the experience with SAM to discuss this issue since it can be modelled purely mathematically. Said data DID show capped WS accuracy on mobs with eva rivalling that of a Mamool Ja Lurker; in fact only Flash from Puks could throw it off.

[Imladra]

It was shown that Hauby +1 was superior to Osode in all way. I need to check out for the KI thread if you dont believe me.

I remember seeing this thread on KI, but it was not taking in account the atk bonus from Y/G/K (which has been proven within the past weeks here on BG).

This thread was stating that after a certain amount of attack, osode was taking the lead (650+ or 700+ i don't remember clearly). This would probably need more research.

Personnaly i use askar body, stats wise it's almost like a hauby+1 (minus 1str) and as for the dex/acc, i've noticed ~95% acc on Y/G/K on almost every parses i made in merit party, so i don't think it's really a problem.
So,as many, i have an osode rotting in MH...

edit: typing mistake !

[Kimkytaru]

What kind of dmg difference we're talking about ? 10-50 dmg or significant dmg like 100-300 dmg ?

[Lahan]

I said it earlier I WS at 100 unless I am gonna Sekkanoki I hardly ever wait until 300. and I know about hate decay I WS right after the hagun guys if they are that much over me why did it turn to me. and yes there was no real tank in the merit pt and yes i do expect to be able to pop segian and TE to negate a few hits here and there.

the original poster asked for opinions on soboro and that what I posted. and I said yea I whish I had it at 50 but I got it at 75 and dont use it so much in nm/hnm/sky gods/sea gods. yes its complty sick to use on sam/dnc you can out last anything but a damn named NM in campaign that hits everyine for 1700 something.

but you cant post an opinion on BG with all the elitest coming out and being idiots. you don't need 12 mil in gear to play a job great. that what I was trying to tell him.

all the hagun fanboys power to you. I got one swung it for a day dide better dmg with my Ush so that what I'll stick with. no praser but I have a log and can ad up the numbers there.
if I can get a Onimaru I'll give that a go it was pricey once upon a time as well so I never looked at it twice. the only bad thing I can see with it after 100 tp going for 200 to Sekk, your at the lower dmg and no hidden bonuses. but that only every 5 min so meh.

to the original post just try and have fun that what this whole game is for anyway. don't break your back for one or twpo items because I am sure youll be a good same eather way.

[Raen Ryong]

People aren't being "elitist" and suggesting that you need PERFECT GEAR to play your job well. What they are objecting to is this:

all the hagun fanboys power to you. I got one swung it for a day dide better dmg with my Ush so that what I'll stick with. no praser but I have a log and can ad up the numbers there.

Yes, Hagun is a lot of money. Yes, it may not be worth it depending on the person. CRITICALLY, YES IT IS BETTER. People are objecting to you because you are claiming an inferior weapon is superior without any kind of evidence.

There are a lot of SAMs going around claiming Hagun sucks, must be due to the widely-played nature of the job nowadays, but whether or not it is worth the cost -- it is still your best readily attainable weapon! You could make a similar point with Haubergeon +1 -- worth the cost to most people? Not likely. Still, it is your best body piece in most cases and it's foolish to deny this.

What kind of dmg difference we're talking about ? 10-50 dmg or significant dmg like 100-300 dmg?

Between Haubergeon+1 and Osode?

+1fSTR(assuming it is not capped) and 2~3WSC (from the top of my head) which, for a SAM using Tachi: Gekko at 100% TP with a Hagun and Sea Gorget is a damage increase at best of

(1 + 3) * (1.875+0.1) * Pdif = ~7-8 * Pdif (where Pdif is likely to be around 2~).

You also have to factor in Overwhelm, but I am not entirely sure where Overwhelm is factored into the whole equation. Overwhelm will magnify such differences though.

Correct me if any of my math is wrong <_<