Sam info?

[Rama]

I wouldn't have really payed any mind to this had someone not pulled out, "Why don't you go level the job in question before making job-specific assertions?"

Unfortunately, someone did.

Its been tested on many occasions, and it is now understood that there is a bonus of ~50 WSACC attached to every single-hit weapon skill in the game. This alone makes Kirin's Osode superior to Haubergeon +1 in all situations, granted you're not using Kaiten, which may or may not be further augmented by using something along the lines of a Bernie +1 due to the positive reaction to high attack and lack of native pDIF bonus.

Ignoring the presence of accuracy that you really should have already known about, from a purely 'which will do more damage' standpoint:

[Darkwill calculations]

It would behoove you to ignore the part in the end regarding Haubergeon +1 being the overall superior choice due to the accuracy, as the hidden WSACC wasn't widely known at this point.

Kimkytaru, stop referencing things that you clearly didn't actually read.

Keep in mind these calculations are ignoring the only-recently quantified attack bonus. Add in the attack bonus and it's no-brainer, as long as you can afford the accuracy hit.

As was said previously, I too have a separate WS set for Lurkers/flash/blind/etc which uses haub+1 instead of osode as well as: AF+1 over alky, Shura over usukane pants, Usukane feet over rutter sabatons. It's pretty overboard on acc, but I still sleep at night.

@ Lahan
5-hit build with 450 delay katana drops *too much* accuracy and haste to be worthwhile. This is why 6-hit is the preferred 'x-hit' build for 450 delay GKT, it is the best trade off. Also, as someone else said already, with store-tp either you did or you didn't. There is no 'almost' x-hit build.

@Sephiroth-thing
Use your 75war to skill up polearm while bored/farming one day.

[Zosi]

I'm curious to see these parses of Onimaru/Rana outdoing Hagun/Gekko. Link? Other WS gear?

I'm not trying to flame or discredit, I got my Windslicer the other day and would honestly love some motivation to start unlocking it.

[Hakamaru]

As was said previously, I too have a separate WS set for Lurkers/flash/blind/etc which uses haub+1 instead of osode as well as: AF+1 over alky, Shura over usukane pants, Usukane feet over rutter sabatons. It's pretty overboard on acc, but I still sleep at night.

I think you're being WAY too conservative here. I take off all my ACC except for Shura Head on WS, and ACC never uncaps even when I'm doing Lurkers.

Here's a parse from a while back at Nyzul Isle Mamools (plenty of NINs and THFs).
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j7...ls_9-19-08.jpg

And here's the WS gear I used in that parse.
- FFXIAH.com


I honestly wasn't aware of anybody finding a ceiling to the 1-hit WS ACC bonus. Even on things like Byakko... I don't swap over to Hauby/AF+1 for WS. I did a test a while back on NIN where I pushed my melee ACC down just under 70% and I still had capped WS ACC. It's posted here in this section under the thread on WS ACC bonus that Ruke made, but I can't be bothered to find it right now.


Moral of the story: Osode/Alkys always win for Gekko.

[Sephiroth_Owa 13]

@Sephiroth-thing
Use your 75war to skill up polearm while bored/farming one day.

Of course. I plan on getting it to Penta or around bird camp @lvl54 and just leaving the rest up to pt to keep it skilled while doing birds.

[Zilong]

This math is irrelevant as an Onimaru user should be using Rana instead of Gekko, which is quite a spectacular WS with attack to back it up. In merits, Onimaru/Rana can easily outdo Hagun/Gekko. Of course against anything harder, that's a different story.

Leveling SAM myself currently and I have a question for Soboro users: what grip should I be using? Planning on using it until 6-hit/Hagun.

Rana is fucking horrible.

That is all

[PeaceNLove]

I'm curious to see these parses of Onimaru/Rana outdoing Hagun/Gekko. Link? Other WS gear?

I'm not trying to flame or discredit, I got my Windslicer the other day and would honestly love some motivation to start unlocking it.

A JP friend posted a meripo parse on his LS's BBS, mostly to brag about the exp/hr. Here's an excerpt from the WS section:

与ダメ・その他__ _____________________ __累計 __平均[最大/最小] __命中___________
Kellanved_______ 十之太刀・乱鴉_______ _55431 _908.7[1513/_273] _98.4%[__61/__62]
________________ 八之太刀・月光_______ _11826 _844.7[1351/_534] _87.5%[__14/__16]
________________ 峰打ち_______________ _____0 ___0.0[___0/___0] 100.0%[___0/___3]
Mesdoram________ キングズジャスティス_ _58528 1272.3[2053/_467] _97.9%[__46/__47]
________________ メタトロントーメント_ _16544 1102.9[1688/_610] _88.2%[__15/__17]
Peacenlove______ キングズジャスティス_ _79753 1208.4[2167/_336] 100.0%[__66/__66]
技連携__________ 湾曲_________________ ____59 __59.0[__59/__59] 100.0%[___1/___1]

Kellanved is the SAM, using Onimaru. The first line is Rana, the second is Gekko. The Gekko sample size is quite small because he only uses it when mobs have a sliver of health left lol. Sorry this isn't a parse of Onimaru vs Hagun, but it's evidence that Rana averages higher than Gekko for Onimaru (908.7 vs 844.7) in meripo situations, rendering Wraith's calculations faulty because Rana should be the WS of choice for Onimaru users. Combine that with the DoT increase, and the gap gets narrower, with Onimaru possibly taking the lead.

But really, your motivation should be for making self darkness Rana <> Gekko.

[Kellanved]

Regarding the hagun, I think the issue probably stems from people’s general reluctance to change and their tendency to “herd mentality”. Once a particularly approach to game play becomes established as the norm, the majority of players are slow to adapt to changes, and MMOs are typically changing games. Additionally, few actually bother to experiment and those that do aren't always quite as vocal.

There is certainly no shortage of those that preach the gospel of hagun. Granted, the addition of Tachi:rana is fairly recent, but even so the onimaru was never truly awful in comparison to the hagun depending, in fact it still remains one of the best weapons to use for 300% TP WS. No doubt there are those who’ve realized that Rana isn’t too bad when you approach it properly, though not great.

That aside, the hagun is a great and all powerful weapon, a “semi-relic.” Please buy many haguns… preferably from me.

[Kimkytaru]

Kimkytaru, stop referencing things that you clearly didn't actually read.

Thx if you actually read the thread people already told me that in a manner that is far more appropriate then yours. So thx again but you didnt had to post a wall of text to explain this to me, however I'm sure you couldnt resist to show me how superior you are then me.

And yes my english sucks !

[Valkrish]

i'm not. i'm just being an asshole!

Oh the things i've seen Marty.

[WraithLakshmi]

Onimaru/Rana:

123 str, 574 attack, 95% hitrate

WD = (83 + 15 + 35) = 133
pDIF = 574/325 - (.05 * 6.5) = 1.44

133 * 3.1 * 1.19 * 1.44 * .857 (chance for all 3 hits to land)= 605.48

Onimaru/Gekko:

142 str, 536 attack

WD = ( 83 + 16 + 88 ) = 187
pDIF = 536/325 - (.05 *6.5) = 1.32 * 2 = 2.64, capped down to 2.2

187 * 1.6625 * 1.19 * 2.2 * .95 = 773.2

Gekko is still superior with Onimaru, by quite a lot. As I've said numerous times, on anything where your pDIF is not capped or close to cap, Gekko is better than Rana. On too weak mobs, Rana is better. Using the same str as I used in these calculations, my Rana setup would have to have 703 attack to catch up with Gekko, which you can only reach if you have your bard SV minuet x2, or if you are /war and use berserk with attack food and a bard giving minuet.

[Magnus5557]

Only time to take off Soboro from 50 'til Hagun (or Onimaru maybe) is to rape shit with polearm. And if you plan on soloing/duoing, SAM/DNC with Soboro is the shit for both of those things.

[Mesiah]

i'm not. i'm just being an asshole!

Is that a passive trait?

Also, I parsed it last night, And my wang beats hagun by 2.35%.

[Ryukin]

Moral of the story: Osode/Alkys always win for Gekko.

i'm going with haka on this one. i hardly miss with osode + hachiryu haidate and wyvern helm +1, thats missing a shit load of acc for wsing, and yet, i hardly ever miss (in ws).








lolaskar

[PeaceNLove]

Using the same str as I used in these calculations, my Rana setup would have to have 703 attack to catch up with Gekko, which you can only reach if you have your bard SV minuet x2, or if you are /war and use berserk with attack food and a bard giving minuet.

Which is very feasible in any half decent meripo. The parse I showed was BRD+COR, chaos/fighters/march/march, at Jade and doing every skoffin pop. The only "weak" mobs were three puks every round of pops, and Rana is clearly outdoing Gekko. Hell, the Gekko average is even skewed by a 300TP outlier. It's really closer to 908 average Rana vs 808 for Gekko.

Your math is great, but I'll stick to parses when gauging the best possible damage potential for a meripo SAM. Since recently hitting 75 on SAM myself and trying hagun and onimaru in meripos, I can already see Oni/Rana outdoing Hagun/Gekko both in DoT AND WS average. With higher attack, Rana only gets better while Gekko hardly sees a difference. However, I'm still not convinced that an Oni/Rana SAM/WAR will outdo a Hagun/Gekko SAM/DRG. Looking to parse this as soon as my SAM merits are done.

[Aevis]

l o l

[seiji]

hmm now im curious, is a 5hit build for sam even possible using resonable gkatanas?

pachipacho can do a 5hit but parse lower than hagun 6hit (anybody tried a 5hit rana pachi build?)

can do a 5hit with a 450GK but it will lock every slot exept head+waist and keep same gear for WS

can do a 4hit build with..... ito

Ushiguys get hate because of the stupid +2enmity

[Aquilo86]

Do sam/rng with soboro on bst pets, Sidewinder will pwn their faces before they pwn yours, bring a PL though just in case