Don't ask, don't tell: no more.

[Charismatic]

Hopefully when they find the gene or hormones that make you gay, we can easily expel all gays from the military so we can end this little problem, since we can't bunk them with straights, women, or even themselves.

Exactly.
As you can see, they cause nothing but trouble.

That's why people want em out of there.

[Day]

Why stop at the military?

[Izzy]

I can't figure out if Kuya and Charismatic are trolling or not

[Correction]

How do you know someone is asking? How do you know they aren't playing grabass and being found out?
How do you know they aren't coming out, etc?

Since it's you I doubt you're serious but:

Simple probability tells me that it doesn't happen exactly the same way in 100% of the cases. The policy is really two things. First it's a continued ban on being gay and in the military. Simple enough. If you're gay, you can't serve, and you're just fired. Second, it's a smokescreen behind which the military can invent creative ways to get homosexual servicemen/women to come out of the closet, a legally defensible get-out-of-jail-free card that allows them to blamelessly remove thousands of perfectly qualified military personnel from their jobs. 'It's not my fault I fired her, the policy requires that I fire that dyke.'

Neither is excusable, no matter how many "in combat gays distract me and my hetero, beer drinkin' football buddy unit. We just don't know what them fags are thinking in the heat of battle. HEY get off'n mah ass and watch for IEDs" hypotheticals are tossed into the thread.

[Vuitton]

Since it's you I doubt you're serious but:

Simple probability tells me that it doesn't happen exactly the same way in 100% of the cases. The policy is really two things. First it's a continued ban on being gay and in the military. Simple enough. If you're gay, you can't serve, and you're just fired. Second, it's a smokescreen behind which the military can invent creative ways to get homosexual servicemen/women to come out of the closet, a legally defensible get-out-of-jail-free card that allows them to blamelessly remove thousands of perfectly qualified military personnel from their jobs. 'It's not my fault I fired her, the policy requires that I fire that dyke.'

Neither is excusable, no matter how many "in combat gays distract me and my hetero, beer drinkin' football buddy unit. We just don't know what them fags are thinking in the heat of battle. HEY get off'n mah ass and watch for IEDs" hypotheticals are tossed into the thread.

Being gay isn't exactly a "get out of the military no hassles!" card. It is considered a dishonorable discharge and that dishonorable discharge will follow you for the rest of your life, making it difficult for you to obtain work elsewhere if they don't allow you to explain why.

In addition, if your superiors suspect you of being a homosexual they'll start keeping track of you and investigating you. They'll lock you up in a room and try and get you to admit it saying that have the evidence, but its usually a lie to get you to admit it.

Some superiors and peers will know and not care and it will be "known" but not spoken of, because they're your buddies. Bonds form you know, when you rely on each other in combat.

As to your other thing about gays wanting to check you out instead of some bombs and towel heads shooting at you. Are you for real? I highly doubt a gay male that has chosen to be a solider as his career is going to allow himself or yourself or his buddies to be injured due to his negligence. I think its rather insulting actually that you're insinuating that a gay man would rather size you up in a combat situation where death is likely if you're not on top of your game.

I have a feeling that in combat, the gay man wants to live as much as you do, and I bet that a gay man in the military wants to "win" and fuck shit up as much as all his buddies.

They're not Goldie Hawn in Private Benjamin. They joined for similar reasons as you.

(edit: eh, i think i misunderstood your position, but i am too lazy to change the post, so ill leave it for others)

[Neosutra]

Discharge via being gay is almost never a dishonorable discharge. I'm not sure where you heard otherwise. Also, if guys are distracted by women in combat, why wouldn't gay guys be distracted by men? Are they that much more proffessional?

[Doofus]

All i have to say about this topic is, why does being gay make everyone think we cant keep our hands to ourselves?

Straight men and straight women interact with each other every day and dont end up banging each other in the barracks, why is it ingrained in everyones head that there would be an issue?

[Kuya]

Because straight men can't. Scientific fact, etc.

[Penthesilea]

It's not the gays, it's the other guys. They won't be able to resist the urges they have once they know you're out.



Neo, how bad is it for chicks in the army? My friends little sister just went in, and we give her a hard time saying that her sister is gonna be coming out a veteran... of 200+ dudes.

[Uzor]

The Roman empire generally had the policy that "Men are for pleasure, women are for family" when it came to sex, which is one of the reasons their bath houses weren't very hygienic.

As for the fall of the Roman empire, imo. it started falling apart with the introduction of Christianity.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Straight men and straight women interact with each other every day and dont end up banging each other in the barracks, why is it ingrained in everyones head that there would be an issue?

the problem is, even that much isn't entirely true.

[Neosutra]

All i have to say about this topic is, why does being gay make everyone think we cant keep our hands to ourselves?

Straight men and straight women interact with each other every day and dont end up banging each other in the barracks, why is it ingrained in everyones head that there would be an issue?

The bolded part shows youve never been in the army.

Soldiers are like rabbits. Deployed soldiers are like rabbits on crack. Im not saying being gay makes you more likely to do/attempt sexual things while on deployment, im saying being human causes that.

[Julian]

Difference is, the women are also attracted to the man, the attraction goes both ways.

Straight and gay men are different, the gay guy might be attracted to the straight guy, but unless the straight guy is also gay (or bi/curious) that attraction is only gonna be one way.

[Neosutra]

So you have one distracted by his sexuality, and one distracted by their discomfort. Also, you are assuming you only have one gay soldier in a unit, and not 2-3.

[Marius]

one thing i wanna know is this

straight guys have the same urges as gay guys just towards different sexes. Gay guys have the same moral restraints and straight guys. because in the end they're all guys.

It's up to the individual person to decide for themselves.
If they are causing problems then remove them, wether its the one or two straight guy(s) having a problem with the gay guy(s) or the gay guy(s) causing the problems(it can and does happen)for the straight members of the unit.Why not just remove the minority that has the problem or move them to another unit?

fyi in a different country and have never served so is just an outsiders point of view.



one other thing i'd like to ask for the people who have served. What would happen if there was an incident that would cause problems between two people that had nothing to do with sex or sexuality. What would happen there and how would it be resolved? and could this practice me used for this situation?

[Neosutra]

The problem is, "causing problems" in the military often ends in death or loss of personel that I needed to be successful in the fight. You cant wait till the problem arrises to correct it.

As for your question about an incident between 2 people that was non sexually related: There are very often many confrontations in these stressful environments. Typically the rank structure takes care of this, but there are levels of disciplinary actions for those that show they are incapable of meeting the standards. However if I saw a situation that was continually antagonizing 1 or more soldiers or the moral of the unit, I would take actions to ensure it didnt develop into something more. The problem comes with the DADT perspective, that the "antagonizing" issue is this issue of mixed sexes in a hostile and stressful environment. And ofcourse by mixed sexes I mean sexual identity, not genetic.

[#686578]

Soldiers are like rabbits. Deployed soldiers are like rabbits on crack. Im not saying being gay makes you more likely to do/attempt sexual things while on deployment, im saying being human causes that.

I'm not even in the army and can say that this is true.

[Marius]

is it feasible for these problems to be discovered and dealt with during basic training before being deployed or does it not work like that?

[archibaldcrane]

Difference is, the women are also attracted to the man, the attraction goes both ways.

Straight and gay men are different, the gay guy might be attracted to the straight guy, but unless the straight guy is also gay (or bi/curious) that attraction is only gonna be one way.

What if a gay guy is attracted to another gay guy, but that particular gay guy isn't reciprocating the attraction?

What if a straight woman is attracted to a man, but the man isn't attracted to that woman?

Whatever conflict one-sided attraction causes in the military exists whether gays are involved or not.

Being gay or straight is irrelevant.

[Neosutra]

is it feasible for these problems to be discovered and dealt with during basic training before being deployed or does it not work like that?

I went to a coed basic training. The males and females were sneaking off bang each other -every- opportunity they got. Most got caught, and most got the shit smoked out of them, and still continued to do it.

You cant ground out human nature and raging hormones (that are higher in an environent where you are already with-holding sex from everyone) by simply making them do more pushups.

This is the same reason abstinence only policies fail. You may "want" people to make the right choice, but in the end, we are all just a bunch of animals, and when put in the situation, hormones make the decisions.