Store TP benefit for THF

[Amok]

I'm trying to figure out the math for the benefit of Store TP on THF. I'm really bad at statistics, so that's why I'm making this thread. The basic idea is, if you could go from needing 18 hits to get 100% TP to 17 (accounting for WS TP return) it'd be roughly a 5.5% decrease in the amount of time it takes to get the next 100% TP (It'll be lower since I don't account for the time delay for performing a WS). The thing that makes my mind go 'bleh' is how do you account for Triple Attack and Double Attack (brutal) when you want to know how much faster you're getting 100% TP. If you assume that your ACC is the same before and after the addition of Store TP gear; are you able to say that since Double and Triple Attack are present in both cases, they cancel eachother out and the overall gain is still hovering around that 5.5%.

When you're 1 or 2 hits away from 100, and you get a lucky proc and overshoot 100, the benefit of the Store TP is lost (in the sense that you could have done without it). Intuitively it feels like this should take AWAY from the 5.5%. On the other hand (coming back to what I said before) the same happens when you need 18 hits to 100, in which case they cancel eachother out?

Whatever the answer is, does the same apply to Dual Wield?

Also, not to seem smug or anything, but: I'd like an answer to my question and not a post telling me that going the Haste or Acc route is better.

[VZX]

I've been thinking that myself as well when lvling BLU. It's a DW job, so I can say it's somewhat similar. In the end, I stick with haste and let the Store TP build go with 2handers.
The fact is, there is a lot more variables in non-2hander TP gain compared to 2handers. Even if I know the way how to calculate it precisely which build is better, I don't think I'll even bother calculating for that small increase that you can't really control.

In the end, I apologize for not answering it Just giving a piece of my mind

[Amok]

Hah, looks like we're in the same boat, except you have a paddle!

The gain really is small unless you have no alternative. Haste will win out when you have enough of it, because in 5 to 6 swings you already have 1 attack round up on the non-haste build, which (if it were a Store TP build) was the one that was trying to reduce your hits-to-100 by just 1. So, I'm pretty confident it's not gonna beat out a decent haste build. On the other hand, that's assuming your sTP build has no haste, but it probably will, so it's not that clear-cut. I think if the difference in haste were small enough, they could be pretty damn close (with an sTP build being better in very specific situations).

[seiji]

not sure i'm right (cause i'm a 2hander) but every time your #DA+miss is even 17th hit will be main hand, then you'll off hands 18th before being able to ws.

=> go for haste

[pchan]

If there is any benefit it's halves because you dual wield, so attack go by pair at least. No point going 18>17 if you will always do ws @ 18..

[Enedin]

In my farming gear (Trotter's, Regen neck piece) I end up at 99 TP too often. Using Chivchain or Cobra Boots gets me at 100, so I found my number lol.

[Amok]

I'm not looking at only a Dual Wield situation. I don't want this to turn into a subjob discussion, but I want to present an example with thf/sam.

THF/SAM + Martial Knife (186 delay)
18% haste: NQ dusk hands, feet, swift, turban, rapparee
sTP is 22: 15 from sj, 5 rajas, 1 chiv, 1 brutal
Assume +22 sTP during ws with only 1 hit landing (think Shark Bite with crappy acc or Mandalic Stab)
hits to 100 = 16

sTP needed to make it 15 hits
[beep bloop beep]
+24
(this is accounting for +22 sTP during ws)

That difference of 2 sTP can be made up without sacrificing haste in the above setup (no haste in legs slot) with Cobra Subligar. With this example there is no haste loss and I think most would agree there's an overall gain by adding that 2 sTP.

Me and my questionable math skills say, that's roughly a 6.2% decrease in the time it takes to get 100 TP.
1) Wouldn't you'd need about the same amount of haste to equal that time reduction?
2) Is 6.2% inaccurate due to Double/Triple Attack?


PS. in the above example landing 2 hits from WS actually makes you not need any extra sTP to get a 15-hit build. This kind of situation makes me wonder if using sTP gear depending on TP return is practical, or maybe that's taking it too far.

[Seibar]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.ph...&order%5B%5D=0
^store TP options for a thf

your looking at about +20 with brutal, chivy, enkidu subligar, cobra unit feet/hands/head, rajas and ecphoria ring

[Raen Ryong]

My view: it's helpful where you can get it without a loss (Skadi legs, Rajas Ring depending on whether you prefer it or a second acc ring) but don't specifically aim for an x hit build like you would on a 2hander.

[Cream Soda]

Too many variables. A double attack or triple attack proc could make it to where you'd have the same number of attack rounds to get 100+ tp. An odd number of misses for example could also throw it off. If you get 100 tp in lets say 18 attacks and you miss and come to the point where you're at 17 hits your next round of 2 hits is going to put you at 100+. Its nothing I really concern myself with as mnk.

[dawdr]

Gonna go along with the chorus here and say don't bother with Store TP on Dual-Wielding jobs for the most part. If it comes on gear you would wear without it, like Rajas Ring and Brutal Earring, or it pushes something good into the best in show category, like Skadi's Chausses, then use it. Don't go out of your way for it, basically.

On a job like Thief where you attack a billion times a minute, you're going to wind up just shy sometimes and amazingly over on others. Depending on subjob, you're getting anywhere from one to six hits a combat round when you need 16 to 23 to use your weaponskill. Best bet is to just go with haste and accuracy to get your combat rounds to come sooner and more accurately than trying to shave your hits needed down by a twentieth.

[Jingseng]

if i offer you 1% more cash than you already have...

1) If you have $1, then i give you a penny.

2) If you have $100,000, then i give you $1,000.

It's the same 1% boost, and for one of those scenarios is pretty damn good, and for the other, it's really kind of irrelevant.

Say instead, I offer you that 1% boost in exchange for $50. In the bigbucks scenario, you'd be silly not to take it. In the moderneconomy scenario, it'd be stupid to take it.

However, if I offer you that boost at no cost, why wouldn't you take it?

For 1h wielders, dual or otherwise, store tp (and to a certain degree, even haste) are in the category of scenario 1.

Say you get 6% per hit. with storetp 20 (+20% more tp per hit) you get 7.2% per hit. You've gone from a 17 hit setup to a 14 hit setup. That's great and all, but with fast hits, I can't honestly say that it doesnt matter much (to me). To a certain degree, store tp + acc will work in much the same way as haste (haste reduces time to 100%, store tp and acc reduce swings [which is a function of delay, and consequently time] as far as I care to see it; likewise both haste and storetp without good acc suck).

By and large you are counting on your naturally fast swings to make you tp - focus on the quality of your hits rather than the quantity. If you can get a speed increase (via store tp or haste) without giving up on quality, give it a good look.