Knife question for any chefs out there

[buttson]

I'm in the market for some new chef's knives. I prep/cook for myself several times per day. I've been using some old hand-me-down knives that tend to lose their edge rather quickly, and I want to replace them.

I'd like to buy a new set, but I know nothing about what manufactures are worthwhile. I don't need anything too fancy, just a reliable go-to chef's knife that is going to keep a sharp edge through daily use, and maybe a couple of other nice knives to round out the set and keep it interesting. I don't mind sharpening the knives but right now I'm sharpening them every other day... it's getting old.

I'm open to any suggestions. I'd probably drop a couple hundo on a nice set.

[Correction]

Are you sharpening them fo' real or simply honing them?

Knives are like garage tools. Absolutely do not buy them in sets as you will waste money. Looks like all you want is a vegetable slicer.

I have one of these: 6" Chef Knife - TWIN® Signature | J.A. Henckels Official Web Site

Visit a store that actually sells knives and lets you hold them in your hand. You'll find a variety of grip styles and you'll just have to find one that's comfortable for you to slice with.

[Saphirea]

Henckles makes some damn fine knives.

If you're actually using them more than just the average joe (like me) in the kitchen you'll want to buy them individually so you can feel the difference in your hand. I mean like I like a super heavy paring knife for some reason but my chef knife I like the feel of the lighter version that I bought separately.

[kooja]

Global makes good knives. Don't buy too many knives, a chef's knife or something similar can do almost anything.

[Avinor]

I was lucky enough to get a hand-me-down set of Henckles from my parents when they decided they wanted to get a new set (the ones I got are over 20 years old by now, and they're still in great shape). Wusthof(sp) are also a big name, and there are other good knife makers. As was said earlier, try to find a store where you can hold the actual knife to see what feels good. Williams Sonoma usually has a good selection, though they probably stock the more expensive varieties and I doubt you'd find the best deal there.

Alton Brown can explain it all best though:

Quick note on knife honing/sharpening:
YouTube - Good Eats Moment - Happines is a Sharp Knife

And a full episode devoted to knives, cutting boards and handling:

YouTube - Good Eats S11E13 American Slicer (1/2)

YouTube - Good Eats S11E13 American Slicer (2/2)

Forged steel is usually considered to be better than stamped, but a modern stamped knife from a reputable maker should give you all the quality you need for a lower price. Theres also ceramic which are insanely sharp and light, but I think they're still pretty expensive.

[Elesirdur]

You only need three knives to do just about everything:
• An 8-12" Chef's Knife (French style, not Japanese as they are often single-bevel blades and more difficult to use without training). 10" is pretty standard, while 11/12" can get a bit unwieldy if you're not used to it. You'll need a bigger cutting board to use anything over a 10" easily. You can use this for absolutely everything from mincing, to chopping, and carving.
• A boning and/or filleting knife. Something smaller and thinner, usually no longer than 6" and it's intended for boning chicken, filleting fish, and getting into tricky spots with cuts of meat.
• A paring knife, usually less than 3" and just a good utility knife for smaller work. Pick on that fits easily in your hand if you turn the blade facing towards your body and imagine pushing a piece of food into the blade with your thumb. You'll use this for all sorts of utility jobs like removing the cores from peppers and apples to finely mincing cloves of garlic very quickly.

If you're looking to invest in something that will last, go for forged blades over stamped. You can tell a blade is forged because it be thicker and have a bolster of metal where the shank of the knife meets the handle. Stamped blades are merely knives that have been stamped out of a metal sheet and had an edge put on them. Stamped blades tend to be much lighter and therefore require more force from the cook to cut whereas a heavier forged blade will do a lot of the cutting work for you.

If you want to add a fourth knife, think about a santoku (Japanese for "three good things", chopping, cutting, and slicing). These are quire popular now and are awesome for chopping and dicing vegetables very quickly. Heavier forged ones can also be used like a cleaver to hack at bones, but that can dull the edge if you're doing fine work with it too. If you get a sentoku then you might consider buying a longer French Chef's knife, 10" or more, since you'll have a smaller blade to do your quick chopping with.

You may be tempted to buy knives with little scalloped indents in them. Almost always these are purely for show and do nothing to improve the functionality of the knife. The salespeople may say that they lower the resistance of the blade in a piece of food or something like that but really it's just a showy decoration. The only exception being for long, thin knives used for carving meat or for speacilized vegetable knives where you need to apply a very delicate amount of downward pressure and reducing the "stick" of the blade in the food material is important. For a home cook it's unlikely that you'll end up needing this.

Lastly, you need a good honing steel and a knife block. For the love of god, DO NOT PUT YOUR GOOD KNIVES IN A DRAWER OR THE DISHWASHER. The extremely abrasive and corrosive soaps used in dishwasher detergent cause undue wear on the blades and will often corrode the wooden handles prematurely. Keep your knives in a block when not in use. Not only is it safer than rolling around in a drawer, you won't have to worry about the edges getting nicked.

Use the honing steel every time you use your knives, that will help keep the keen edge on the blade in a good orientation for cutting.

For daily use, get your knives professionally sharpened by your local knifesmith about once every 4-6 months. For three knives it'll probably cost $30 or $40 at most, and many knifesmiths have at-your-door service where they will work in the back of a truck and have your blades properly sharpened in about 30 minutes. This is what professional kitchens do and I would seriously advise against trying to sharpen your good knives at home. It's not easy to do and many hardware store sharpening tools can very easily completely fuck a good knife.

Phew, lots of info but I hope this has been informative.

[Saphirea]

I didn't know that's what a Santoku knife meant...

Should you hone a bread knife and steak knives?

[wyrmtung]

My favorite knife that I own is my Shun santoku. I prefer Japanese knife makers like Shun and Global over the German companies like Henckels and Wusthof.

Like with all things, you get what you pay for. People might not want to spend $100+ on one knife but you can easily tell the difference when you use a quality knife. And it will last you forever, assuming you take care of it and get it professionally sharpened once a year.

I recommend you get a nice santoku. Throw in a paring knife if your budget can afford it. Your next knives should be a bread knife and a filet knife.

[Daydreamer]

How did I not see this earlier?!?!

I agree with what has been said for the most part. One thing to note about the Alton Brown video though. I believe in that episode he says don't ever sharpen your knife yourself. That is bullshit. If you know what you're doing it's fine, just read up on it first and ask around before trying. The only real time you NEED to learn how to sharpen your own knives (not just hone) is if you own a real japanese knife. Honing a true japanese knife made the old school styles will actually make a nice quick fix, but make the blade itself become dull faster. Though unless you do sushi (like me!) then this really isn't a concern.

My go to knife when I posted a thread much like this on a knife forum is a Tojiro - Gyuto style knife. It's 50$ and performs as well as every other knife at work with the exception of the head sushi chef, and that's only because he's a GOD at sharpening knives. He did mine once and I could hear it scream from a mile away.

Here is my knife - Korin - Fine Japanese Tableware and Chef Knives . Actually this version is slightly larger than the one I have, but I would rather have this one.



Ok now into what you asked.

Santoku - don't bother if you work in a restaurant. Unless you've been practicing japanese style cutting for years then a chef's knife will be faster. Santoku knives can really only use a chopping motion not a slicing motion that most western style knives use, and because of this, most westerners just can't use them as well. This isn't to say they are crap for everyone, but it's just much much easier to train yourself on a western style blade. And yeah, I read what a Santoku means, but honsetly, it's just hard to slice quickly on the things, especially if using a proper slicing method.

Gyuto - This is the style of my knife. It is kinda like an east meets west thing on chef knives. Lighter blade from the east, but still curved like in the west. I love this thing.

Chef's - 8-10 inches should suffice. 12 inches if you're a really big person with really large hands. Shun, as another poster mentioned, does make an amazing chef's knife, albeit pricy. In fact, one of our new cooks has one of the sharpest fucking knives at work (sharper than mine unless I sharpen mine every single day) and he claims to have NEVER sharpened it, only honed it once a week. I think he just got a lucky knife or something though, because the head chef using a shun as well, and it's not nearly as sharp. Still though, I'd recommend them. More classical chef's knives are Wüsthof and Henckel knives are pretty standard, but great for the money.


For a GREAT reference book I highly recommend - Amazon.com: An Edge in the Kitchen: The Ultimate Guide to Kitchen Knives -- How to Buy Them, Keep Them Razor Sharp, and Use Them Like a Pro: Chad Ward: Books

[Elesirdur]

Should you hone a bread knife and steak knives?

Considering that they are, typically, by definition serrated then no, you don't hone them because you can't. I wouldn't spend more than $10 on a bread knife since the one you buy at your hardware store will cut bread just as well as some crazy expensive one in a set somewhere.

[Saphirea]

Haha, I didn't know that honestly
I got a set off our registry for the wedding, which was a decent set of Henckles. It had quite a few things and then we went and bought a paring knife and a santoku.

[Norellicus]

Blocks also tend to cause undue wear, so if your kitchen can accommodate a magnet bar then use that. Not only does it preserve the keen edge but it makes the knives easily accessible (and these are often quite stylish looking too).

[Amarok]

Try and find a Cutco dealer around you. Very expensive but worth it. Lifetime guarantee, free professional sharpening if you ever need it, free replacements for any reason you can come up with.

Modern Marvels video on Cutco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhC0QS2H9E

[Stromgarde]

Cutco are overprices stamped steel blades. Yes, they do a good job but they are far too expensive for what they are. I used to work for them; The markup is 50% on commission alone.

[Norellicus]

Unless I'm mistaken, that previously referenced Good Eats episode obscurely mocks Cutco, so I'm not so sure about the quality there.

[Daydreamer]

A Cutco knife WILL get you laughed at in a restaurant.

[Askari0]

As far as I know, if you want one of the sharpest knives you can get that holds it's edge better than any other knife, ceramic is the way to go. You spend more for ceramic but they are usually pretty much indestructible and will almost never lose their edge. They are also lighter and usually a little easier to use because of that.

Link for no real reason =P:
Kyocera Revolution Series 6" Ceramic Chef's Knife - Chef's Knives

[sb]

The quality of the knife is important, but so too is the proper care for it. A few tips (more like pet peeves for me when i see people not doing these)

Keep them in a block or a satchel. Was covered by someone above, but putting them in a drawer will lead to dull knives.

Learn how to properly sharpen and hone them.

Keep your knives clean. This sounds like a no brainer, but seriously, wipe them off in between tasks and be sure to rinse your knives after you finish using them. Leaving food on them (especially acidic foods) will degrade the sharpness. One good thing about this practice, is it forces you to think about your knives frequently and trains you in respecting and being aware of them. As can be expected this will show up more on cheaper knives.

And please, if you are using your knife to move food off the cutting board(which you shouldn't be in the first place), use the unsharpened side of the knife.

[sb]

As important as a good set is the proper care for it.

Keep them in a block or a satchel. Was covered by someone above, but putting them in a drawer will lead to dull knives.

Learn how to properly sharpen and hone them.

Keep your knives clean. This sounds like a no brainer, but seriously, wipe them off in between tasks and be sure to rinse your knives after you finish using them. Leaving food on them (especially acidic foods) will degrade the sharpness. One good thing about this practice, is it forces you to think about your knives frequently and trains you in respecting and being aware of them. As can be expected this will show up more on cheaper knives.

And please, if you are using your knife to move food off the cutting board(which you shouldn't be in the first place), use the unsharpened side of the knife.

[buttson]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I trucked down to City Kitchens at 4th and Pine (they are having a pretty big sale atm if you're in Seattle) and picked up a Henckel's Four Star 8" Chef, a 3" paring, honing bar and a nice big rock maple board.



the chef's knife's MSRP is $125 on Henckels' site... I got it for $67.50. Heckuva deal. I can't wait to cook up some vittles.