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  1. #1
    Hydra
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    Dexterity's impact on critical hits

    I think it's time this was better researched. I'm going to do some testing to find the actual equations for crit hit%.

    Knowns:
    • The low cap on crit% is 5%, and the high cap is 20%
    • The high cap is reached at 50 more dex than the enemy's agi
    • The curve is either some form of exponential, or there is a different equation for dDEX 40-50
    • merits and crit weapons can break the caps.


    To start off, I researched at what value of dDEX the low cap could be found. I did 1000 melee swings on level 65 lesser colibri with exactly 65 dex. I have 4/4 crit merits and I was single wielding a senju, and my number of critical hits was exactly 150, giving a crit% of 15% exactly. This means that when dDEX = 0, you are low capped on crit% rate.

    My theory is that the low cap is at dDEX = 0, so when you have equal to or less dexterity than the enemy's agility, your base crit rate will be 5%. I also theorize that the equations from 0 < dDEX <= 40 and 40 < dDEX <= 50 are linear and that there are different slopes in those two integrals.

    What I would like to find, and would welcome help on, is what the slopes of the dex/crit graph are in those two integrals. I'm hoping this is nice and linear, but if it turns out to be exponential it will be a bit more difficult :'-(

  2. #2
    Sea Torques
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    Nice testing so far. I think the next step would be to try 1000 more swings with as much neutral gear as possible and trying to get 100 DEX total. Use senju again since the first test was done with this, and see what the difference from 65 -> 100 dex is. You could even add say 20 more dex to make it a easier equation and do the swings with a total of 85 DEX and go from there.

  3. #3
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithLakshmi View Post
    I think it's time this was better researched. I'm going to do some testing to find the actual equations for crit hit%.

    Knowns:
    • The low cap on crit% is 5%, and the high cap is 20%
    • The high cap is reached at 50 more dex than the enemy's agi
    • The curve is either some form of exponential, or there is a different equation for dDEX 40-50
    • merits and crit weapons can break the caps.


    To start off, I researched at what value of dDEX the low cap could be found. I did 1000 melee swings on level 65 lesser colibri with exactly 65 dex. I have 4/4 crit merits and I was single wielding a senju, and my number of critical hits was exactly 150, giving a crit% of 15% exactly. This means that when dDEX = 0, you are low capped on crit% rate.

    My theory is that the low cap is at dDEX = 0, so when you have equal to or less dexterity than the enemy's agility, your base crit rate will be 5%. I also theorize that the equations from 0 < dDEX <= 40 and 40 < dDEX <= 50 are linear and that there are different slopes in those two integrals.

    What I would like to find, and would welcome help on, is what the slopes of the dex/crit graph are in those two integrals. I'm hoping this is nice and linear, but if it turns out to be exponential it will be a bit more difficult :'-(
    As a clarification, just because you had 1000 swings and had 150 crits does not mean that you always have a 15% crit chance. The probably is likely, but not guaranteed.

    That said, I think you are heading in the right direction for the formula. Also, I disagree with the previous poster. I think it would be better to set a base line without any crit hit bonus if possible.

  4. #4
    Melee Summoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithLakshmi View Post

    Knowns:
    • The low cap on crit% is 5%, and the high cap is 20%
    • The high cap is reached at 50 more dex than the enemy's agi
    • The curve is either some form of exponential, or there is a different equation for dDEX 40-50
    • merits and crit weapons can break the caps.
    Thanks for this, I've always wondered how DEX and crit% rate was calculated.

    With that said, does COR's rogue roll (crit rate up) break caps as well? Or simply adds to the crit rate calculated from your DEX over mob's AGI ?

  5. #5
    Old Merits
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    I think somewhere in alla there was a test on someone's LJ. Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Monk is the original thread, and seaseaseaseasea - DEX/Critical hits relation data. is the LJ data. I read it and got a pretty good understanding of the test result. This is just the conclusion that I get from the test data:

    Base Crit. 5%
    Merit 4%

    Dex over mob agi - 0~20 = 1%
    Dex over mob agi - 21~25 = 2%
    Dex over mob agi - 26~30 = 3%
    Dex over mob agi - 31~35 = 4%
    Dex over mob agi - 36~37 = 5%
    Dex over mob agi - 38~39 = 6%
    Dex over mob agi - 40~41 = 7%
    Dex over mob agi - 42~43 = 8%
    Dex over mob agi - 44 = 9%
    Dex over mob agi - 45 = 10%
    Dex over mob agi - 46 = 11%
    Dex over mob agi - 47 = 12%
    Dex over mob agi - 48 = 13%
    Dex over mob agi - 49 = 14%
    Dex over mob agi - 50 = 15%

    In other words, it works indeed like a tier, except that the tier itself changes when dex over mob agi increases. It seems like 0-20 = 1%, anything over 20, it is 1% every 5 dex until 35, then it is 1% every 2 dex until 43, then anything over 43 is 1% every 1 dex til you cap.

    This theory works in both set of datas that you see from the links. The actual number might not be accurate, but you can get a sense of how it works. That's why if you can't stack a huge amount of dex, don't bother. And most likely on HNM, your dex build will be ineffective.

  6. #6
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    Dex over mob agi - 0~20 = 1%
    Dex over mob agi - 21~25 = 2%
    Dex over mob agi - 26~30 = 3%
    Dex over mob agi - 31~35 = 4%
    Dex over mob agi - 36~37 = 5%
    Dex over mob agi - 38~39 = 6%
    Dex over mob agi - 40~41 = 7%
    Dex over mob agi - 42~43 = 8%
    Dex over mob agi - 44 = 9%
    Dex over mob agi - 45 = 10%
    Dex over mob agi - 46 = 11%
    Dex over mob agi - 47 = 12%
    Dex over mob agi - 48 = 13%
    Dex over mob agi - 49 = 14%
    Dex over mob agi - 50 = 15%
    This is the kind of data I'd like to find, using this we could extrapolate some sort of equation. I don't think that list is very accurate, though, since we know that at dDEX >= 50 your crit will cap at 20%, not 15%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zsky
    With that said, does COR's rogue roll (crit rate up) break caps as well? Or simply adds to the crit rate calculated from your DEX over mob's AGI ?
    Rogue's roll does break the cap, similar to how merits and crit weapons work. Basically, you have your base critical chance, calculated by dDEX, which caps at 20%. Merits, crit+ from weapons, and Rogue's roll are added on top of that, and are, as far as we know, uncapped.

    This means that the maximum critical chance you could attain would be 48% not including gear, with dDEX at 50, 4 merits, and an 11 rogue's roll with either a thf in party or a cor with relic hat. Would make for some crazy DPS if you add destroyers on top of that =P

  7. #7
    Old Merits
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    15% + your base of 5% is 20%

  8. #8
    Old Merits
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    Also, my mistake, it should look like this:

    Base Crit. 5%
    Merit 4%

    Dex over mob agi - 0~10 = 0%
    Dex over mob agi - 11~20 = 1%
    Dex over mob agi - 21~25 = 2%
    Dex over mob agi - 26~30 = 3%
    Dex over mob agi - 31~35 = 4%
    Dex over mob agi - 36~37 = 5%
    Dex over mob agi - 38~39 = 6%
    Dex over mob agi - 40~41 = 7%
    Dex over mob agi - 42~43 = 8%
    Dex over mob agi - 44 = 9%
    Dex over mob agi - 45 = 10%
    Dex over mob agi - 46 = 11%
    Dex over mob agi - 47 = 12%
    Dex over mob agi - 48 = 13%
    Dex over mob agi - 49 = 14%
    Dex over mob agi - 50 = 15%

    it seems like you don't get the first % without having 10 dex over mob's agi. Found that mistake after reviewing my older data.

  9. #9
    Hydra
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    Ahh, ok, that makes sense then.

    I just ran a parse of 1000 melee hits with dDEX = 50 on lesser colibri. I was a bit surprised because my crit% came out lower than expected, 23.76%. With 4 merits and duel wielding a senju and unji, it theoretically should have been 27%. I'm going to attempt another set and see if I get similar results.

    Edit: Just ran another 1000 hits and parsed crit rate of 28.21% this time, so all's right in the world, lol. Just goes to show how much variance you can get in a data set of n=1000.

  10. #10
    Shootin' rocks at monsters
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    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't weapon crit +s only work on the specific weapon?

    In that case, Senju would only really provide about a 3% total crit+ modifier, since Unji doesn't have one. So it looks like you're marginally over the expected 23% critical hit rate, probably a result of killing colibri on a Senju critical.

  11. #11
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marootsoobutsu View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't weapon crit +s only work on the specific weapon?

    In that case, Senju would only really provide about a 3% total crit+ modifier, since Unji doesn't have one. So it looks like you're marginally over the expected 23% critical hit rate, probably a result of killing colibri on a Senju critical.
    I have 4/4 crit merits

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    %

    Dex over mob agi - 0~10 = 0%
    Dex over mob agi - 11~20 = 1%
    Dex over mob agi - 21~25 = 2%
    Dex over mob agi - 26~30 = 3%
    Dex over mob agi - 31~35 = 4%
    Dex over mob agi - 36~37 = 5%
    Dex over mob agi - 38~39 = 6%
    Dex over mob agi - 40~41 = 7%
    Dex over mob agi - 42~43 = 8%
    Dex over mob agi - 44 = 9%
    Dex over mob agi - 45 = 10%
    Dex over mob agi - 46 = 11%
    Dex over mob agi - 47 = 12%
    Dex over mob agi - 48 = 13%
    Dex over mob agi - 49 = 14%
    Dex over mob agi - 50 = 15%
    Graph form please

  13. #13
    Salvage Bans
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    So.. if that's right.. if you can't reach that 36 and above (capping at 50) stacking dex really isn't doing jack for you?

  14. #14
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulun View Post
    So.. if that's right.. if you can't reach that 36 and above (capping at 50) stacking dex really isn't doing jack for you?
    Yeah, that's about right. There appears to be an inflection point at dDEX = 40 where adding more dex causes very large gains, but unless you can get that much it's not worth gearing for, no.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    E. Body
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    I'm lazy, if you don't know which axis means what you're dumb and retarded.

  17. #17
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithLakshmi View Post
    Yeah, that's about right. There appears to be an inflection point at dDEX = 40 where adding more dex causes very large gains, but unless you can get that much it's not worth gearing for, no.
    It also sucks complete ass for Elvaan.

  18. #18
    E. Body
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    My MNK has around 80 base DEX, if I get hachiryu kote I could cap the DEX-AGI thing on Colibri. Shame my WAR is better there.

  19. #19
    I'm more gentle than I look.
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    Should only be better as war if you don't have enough acc to support not using madrigal tbh, unless you're somedecked out adabeurk ect war.

  20. #20
    E. Body
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    My WAR has a little less than 85% accuracy while using a polearm, so if there's a madrigal or hunter's I switch to that; and I'm one of those crazy people that likes to fulltime hasso, something MNK isn't able to do. I don't have an adaberk, but I don't have a black belt either. I'll give MNK merits a try after I get hachiryu kote, I guess. It's been a while.

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