Use of a COR and RDM

[Rektify]

Hello, I had a question about a party I just experienced ...

Rdm (me), Blu, Cor, Nin, Pup and Rng

They synced to me at lvl 70 in Caedarva Mire. First sign that things might turn sour is when the leader asked the Rng to pull, but I was looking for something more relaxed so I let that slide. Next sign things were going to turn sour was when the COR said "no" when I asked for a second roll...

Things were going ok, I was debuffing, hasting, refreshing and had MP to spare, so I asked for Evoker's and Cor's. After a few /tells and rounds of evoker's roll only I asked in /p chat. Got a gem with "if I give it to you I'll have to give it to everyone." Well ok... unorthodox but whatever, can I have say .. Healer's Roll? I got "you have all this MP, you don't need anything to do your job!" He promptly stopped giving me any roll at all and went back to meleeing. I tried a few times to give some kind of intelligent response, even telling the leader he had a nut case in party but in the end I just went with "you're only doing half your job, you disgust me" "sorry everyone, nice to meet you" /disband.

I have a feeling he was an idiot, but question: What rolls should I be asking for? If I'm doing fine on MP is it ok to ask for COR's roll? And for the RDM's - should I ever really be nuking in an exp party? I've gotten this high from level sync's and have maxed skills from 75 Blm and Whm so my Rdm understanding could use a little work. My Rdm strategy has been to hold out as long as possible from using Convert. Is that basically correct? Finally, am I somewhat right with the COR? If you're not pulling do your damn job ... lol.

[fliprock]

the cor was an idiot, that's all.

i give evoker's & healer's. if mp isnt a problem then i go to evoker's & corsairs

[Ultimagi]

The Corsair is being lazy. He should consider himself lucky he's not pulling. I'd assume he's probably the bandwagon type who subs Ninja even though he'll never use a single Shihei.
If you're casting any Enfeebling Magic, you should be asking for Warlock's Roll to help them land. That would also help if you chose to throw out some Elemental Magic with your extra MP. There's nothing wrong with using Convert, as long as you manage your MP good enough that you can use it at the right moment.

[Vedder]

Shoulda told the COR to get a Luzaf's Ring and then it would be super easy for everyone to have 2 rolls on them. Melees get a roll, Mages get evokers, then slap on Luzaf's and everyone gets Corsair's ... unless someone is still out of range, then it's their own fault for not getting it unless they are pulling.

Even if a 4-roll cycle is needed because Corsair's isn't viable yet (lower level parties), its shouldn't be that much of an issue to keep up with.

But to answer your question, in a merit-type party (fast kills, etc), you should get Evoker's without a doubt. It's up to you and your ability to manage MP if your 2nd roll should be Healer's or Corsair's. WHM if you are always running out of MP before Convert is up, COR otherwise.

[Ultimagi]

I personally don't like the idea of giving 1 or 2 members more experience points using Corsair's Roll. If you're going to use Luzaf's Ring to give it to everyone, you would need to make sure that's okay with the party, and that it's going to outweigh the possibility of other rolls over time.

[Mizango]

Shitty Cor, slap him the next time you see him.

[The_OG_Nelta]

I personally don't like the idea of giving 1 or 2 members more experience points using Corsair's Roll. If you're going to use Luzaf's Ring to give it to everyone, you would need to make sure that's okay with the party, and that it's going to outweigh the possibility of other rolls over time.

Why would it really matter that one or two people get more xp? I don't understand..

[Mizango]

i give evoker's & healer's. if mp isnt a problem then i go to evoker's & corsairs

^ Exactly. Oddly enough a lot of Melee I'm with want numbers and actually dont want Cor. Roll, so I toss it on myself and the mage unless MP is getting pummeled.

The Corsair is being lazy. He should consider himself lucky he's not pulling. I'd assume he's probably the bandwagon type who subs Ninja even though he'll never use a single Shihei.

BUT I CNA HAS 2 KNIEFS 4 RACC NAB LOOOL 11!!

[Ratatapa]

when i play sch i like to ask Evokers/healer but

it's easy to do it when miz is the cor he's always /whm so his dmg is gimped

[Isiolia]

What rolls should I be asking for? If I'm doing fine on MP is it ok to ask for COR's roll?

I haven't seen people split Corsair's Roll off. Usually if that's used, it's used because the benefit of the increased XP gain is greater than what an additional buff would give. For example, you're outpacing repop rate anyway, so killing a little slower for more XP would be better.
Healer's Roll could potentially be useful, but I would weigh it still. Were you medding much anyway? Was the COR's roll rotation getting screwed up by Amnesia? They don't tend to have a lot of room to play around with timers in a four roll rotation, so that might have been a factor.

And for the RDM's - should I ever really be nuking in an exp party? I've gotten this high from level sync's and have maxed skills from 75 Blm and Whm so my Rdm understanding could use a little work. My Rdm strategy has been to hold out as long as possible from using Convert. Is that basically correct? Finally, am I somewhat right with the COR? If you're not pulling do your damn job ... lol.

Nuking...depends. It's one of those things that you "can" do if you have spare MP to, but most of the time a RDM that's main healing won't be. Back when I leveled RDM, bursting the SC was pretty normal (if not in the middle of casting something else)...but that was obviously pretty long ago =P Nowadays, maybe to help save chain on a Lurker or something, but rarely ever otherwise.

Convert strategy varies. Some would say that you should make as much use of your MP as you can in order to burn in down in time for Convert. Others would take a more conservative approach like you are. What I tend to do, and what I tend to see, is that people will become less frugal with MP if Convert is up, or close to up, but won't just find -something- to spend it on. Also a good time to redo Protects or whatnot. If you can keep on going without issue, then great >.>

Lot of it is just about party flow. If what you were doing was working well, then why fuss? If it's causing a problem, or impacting efficiency, then sure...otherwise, don't worry about it.

[Ultimagi]

Why would it really matter that one or two people get more xp? I don't understand..

Giving more rewards for equal work is unfair, to me. But I'm not saying others shouldn't do it, to each his own.

[Syntex]

I just wonder why a COR doesnt full time xp roll? The point to party is to get as much xp as possible and I see a lot of COR's at higher levels not even use it.

Either way that COR was an ass, much like a RDM who doesn't haste/refresh everyone unless they need to heal with that mp but at that point you need a better setup or a different camp.

[Alistaire]

I just wonder why a COR doesnt full time xp roll? The point to party is to get as much xp as possible and I see a lot of COR's at higher levels not even use it.

Either way that COR was an ass, much like a RDM who doesn't haste/refresh everyone unless they need to heal with that mp but at that point you need a better setup or a different camp.

Simple answer: Other buffs boost xp/hr indirectly by helping you kill faster. There's a point where those buffs won't add more xp/hr than just adding xp. If you're in a good meripo, you should always have COR roll.

[Ultimagi]

Well the most benefit a Corsair's Roll can give is a 24% bonus. That's rolling an 11, which most Corsair's don't even try to do for fear of busting. Unless you have Fold and/or Snake Eyes, it's usually not worth the risk. An average Corsair's Roll is only about 15%, which is typically outweighed by the extra kills you would have gotten had you used Chaos, Fighter's, Rogue's, Hunter's, or Samurai Roll instead over the same amount of time.

[Syntex]

Simple answer: Other buffs boost xp/hr indirectly by helping you kill faster. There's a point where those buffs won't add more xp/hr than just adding xp. If you're in a good meripo, you should always have COR roll.

Exactly. Killing a mob in 15 seconds vs 18 seconds is like what? one more mob in 2 minutes IF you can keep up nonstop pulls yet the XP roll will outweigh any XP from that one mob.

Either way bad player is bad, just refuse to party with him.

[Kerberoz]

I'd never use COR roll on only mages... it goes on everyone or no one. Typically in a good party with multiple support, the cor should be doing exp, 1x melee, and smn rolls. Only use 2x melee rolls if it's a fuck-around epeen merit party or if you can't infinite chain without them. It's pretty damn easy to hit the whole party with Luzaf.

As for pulling... wtf get a brd.

[Rektify]

Thank you for the responses, especially Isiolia.

@ Isiolia: The COR flat out ignored me and then was a general douche about it. I was looking through my /p chat after I /blisted and left and now it's just making me laugh my ass off -

Me: "Well ok, any roll would be nice --"
Him: "Come melee, u can get Hunter's Roll"
*under breath* douche

He was subbed /rng, to whoever asked.

I was more interested in the RDM questions, switching between an aggressive and passive style sounds more like the way to go. RDM is going to be my supreme merit whore with Brd/Cor parties only so I wanted an answer on that, thanks /

[Tulun]

Shitty cor.

Always give evoker's. I generally don't give two rolls if I'm meleeing (at least in merits) outside of Corsair roll to the mages; I've never seen it necessary if the party is functioning properly (non-stupid DDs, healer with decent gear / knows how to keep mp up).

In a place like Mire, it would probably be way better for cor to go support anyway. Silena spam + a bunch of aoe to heal, it would make it run smoother to have the cor support heal.

Not much you can do if you have someone who can't play the job right

[Valyana]

If you have trouble keeping chain because of kill speed, use two melee rolls. Otherwise use Corsair's.

[fren.]

Well the most benefit a Corsair's Roll can give is a 24% bonus. That's rolling an 11, which most Corsair's don't even try to do for fear of busting. Unless you have Fold and/or Snake Eyes, it's usually not worth the risk. An average Corsair's Roll is only about 15%, which is typically outweighed by the extra kills you would have gotten had you used Chaos, Fighter's, Rogue's, Hunter's, or Samurai Roll instead over the same amount of time.

Are you taking into account the XP bonus with Sanction on? I've been doing a three roll rotation since 54 (Wajaom Colibri) and haven't had many complaints aside from a few retards who wanted me to drop Corsair's for Sam roll or some bullshit.

The Mire is fucking horrible.

As for the OP; asking for Cor roll, when no one else had it isn't ideal (but that's the Cor's fault for sucking and not having Luzaf's)