Use of a COR and RDM

[Mizango]

when i play sch i like to ask Evokers/healer but

it's easy to do it when miz is the cor he's always /whm so his dmg is gimped

lol you bastard! <3

[kayn]

Meh, I play like your cor. Your a rdm. If you can't hang with your own refresh and evokers roll too damn bad. 4 rolls means 1 minute of down time. 3 rolls means more time to stare at my screen and drool (or do dmg).
Seriously, people play jobs differently. While it would have been nice for you to get one extra roll, is it really the cors job to bend to the whims of every pt member?
The cor may have been an ass and sucked, but he also may have been great and doing good dmg. We'll never know cause all i see is QQing.

[Shinryuu]

COR is there to grant the party more exp/hour, just like the other 5 members. At later levels, it does this less so by doing damage and moreso by keeping the fucking rolls up jesus fucking christ.

Real pro's can keep all rolls up and either be a very efficient backup healer, a pro puller (seriously, peacemaker is way way underrated), or if neither is needed, parse a nice 10%-15% or so (in before COR posters posting parses of them outdamaging gimps, it's nice and all but real melee outdamage CORs, always, in an exp setting anyway).

OPs COR doesn't sound like a pro.

[Mizango]

Meh, I play like your cor. Your a rdm. If you can't hang with your own refresh and evokers roll too damn bad. 4 rolls means 1 minute of down time. 3 rolls means more time to stare at my screen and drool (or do dmg).
Seriously, people play jobs differently. While it would have been nice for you to get one extra roll, is it really the cors job to bend to the whims of every pt member?
The cor may have been an ass and sucked, but he also may have been great and doing good dmg. We'll never know cause all i see is QQing.

^ Exhibit A) A smug, crappy Corsair who justifies wanting "downtime" as a reason to not keep up or even offer to attempt 4 rolls. "We'll never know cause all I see is excuses."

COR is there to grant the party more exp/hour, just like the other 5 members. At later levels, it does this less so by doing damage and moreso by keeping the fucking rolls up jesus fucking christ.

Real pro's can keep all rolls up and either be a very efficient backup healer, a pro puller (seriously, peacemaker is way way underrated), or if neither is needed, parse a nice 10%-15% or so (in before COR posters posting parses of them outdamaging gimps, it's nice and all but real melee outdamage CORs, always, in an exp setting anyway).

OPs COR doesn't sound like a pro.

^ Exhibit B) A mighty fine Corsair that understands his roll in a party and has no qualms or makes no excuses as to why he "can't" or "won't" do something.


It really is that simple.

[Kerberoz]

There's absolutely no reason to give 2 mage rolls if the healer isn't running out of mp, which they shouldn't be. There's definitely no reason to give them their own EXP roll and screw the rest of the party.

There's no reason to pull, either. /pcmd leave and get a party with a bard or two. Maybe with Ballad the healer won't run out of MP, too...

However, they did choose to join and stay with the bad party, so they should be prepared to pull/curebitch.

[Shinryuu]

^ Exhibit B) A mighty fine Corsair that understands his roll in a party

I see what you did there. And yes, in a lot of cases corsair's is the preferred second roll for mages. If not, scholar's makes a case versus healer's depending on how much your mage is resting.

Why would giving the mages corsair's roll be screwing the other party over? The only thing that matters is a party's total exp, and the melee will need hunter's and chaos in a lot of cases, in order to prevent eternal battles. This especially holds when there's no bard.

Mages 'outleveling' the melee is a moot point since level sync came out, anyway.

[kayn]

If you're having to do hunter's you're in the wrong party.

[Mizango]

^ Exhibit B) A mighty fine Corsair that understands his roll in a party

A keen eye! I was hoping someone would catch that

[Shinryuu]

If you're having to do hunter's you're in the wrong party.

If you're under the assumption all of your melee have capped hitrate from levels 10 to 75 and even in merits, always, no exceptions, you're in the wrong game.

[Kilhart]

If you're under the assumption all of your melee have capped hitrate from levels 10 to 75 and even in merits, always, no exceptions, you're in the wrong game.

Slightly off-topic, but this reminded me of how Hunter's is basically the most severely broken buff for low levels without getting help from higher levels.

[Lambtor]

maintaining a 4 roll rotation is not easy; especially if you bust at some point. @ a synch to lv 70 you're not going to have snake eye or fold to help you. hitting decent numbers on rolls is part luck and part risk assessment. the cor in the OP's situation should not have been expected to pull with the idiotic SJ decision that /RNG is.

[Ferien]

Slightly off-topic, but this reminded me of how Hunter's is basically the most severely broken buff for low levels without getting help from higher levels.

Hi, here's double madrigal. At level 11.

[Cakes]

4 rolls are pretty easy to keep up, but largely unnecessary. (In your average merit/experience point PT)
I think it's rather short-sighted of the people who think any SJ other than whm or nin is unnacceptable. If your PT setup can handle it, "situational" is the key word, and you gameplay should change and adapt to fit this.
For example, I had a double BRD PT a few days ago.
WHM BRD BRD COR DRK SAM.
Much Pew-Pewing ensued.
I was happy, and I made a lot of room getting rid of those pesky "bullets", "cards" and "food-stuffs."

edit: was on COR/WAR ^^

[Carrilei]

...the idiotic SJ decision that /RNG is.

Please tell me you're joking.

[kayn]

People who don't have cor at 75 like to tell cors how to play their job.
But I'm sure this goes for any job.

[Kilhart]

maintaining a 4 roll rotation is not easy; especially if you bust at some point. @ a synch to lv 70 you're not going to have snake eye or fold to help you. hitting decent numbers on rolls is part luck and part risk assessment. the cor in the OP's situation should not have been expected to pull with the idiotic SJ decision that /RNG is.

If you're doing a 4-roll rotation, in most cases you will be rolling as soon as your PR timer is up. So, even if you bust in a 4-roll setup, you should be fine. If you don't bust, anyone with half a brain can keep 4 rolls up. Also, luck doesn't exist. Good CORs use data from statistical analysis to judge when to double-up, unless they for some reason don't feel like it at some point (which happens to us all).

And, for the final nail in the coffin, discounting /RNG basically removes any credibility you had left in giving your insight on COR.

[Drex]

Giving more rewards for equal work is unfair, to me. But I'm not saying others shouldn't do it, to each his own.

It's an xp party, not fucking soviet russia

[Spider-Dan]

Well the most benefit a Corsair's Roll can give is a 24% bonus. That's rolling an 11, which most Corsair's don't even try to do for fear of busting. Unless you have Fold and/or Snake Eyes, it's usually not worth the risk. An average Corsair's Roll is only about 15%, which is typically outweighed by the extra kills you would have gotten had you used Chaos, Fighter's, Rogue's, Hunter's, or Samurai Roll instead over the same amount of time.

Not really, no.

In (competent) merit parties, Corsair's Roll is probably the single most effective buff in the game. In good ones, it's a blowout; when you're running up against repop rates as it is, what kind of benefits to you expect to reap by killing faster?

Oh, and as for XI on Corsair's: any COR that understands math will make an attempt for XI if they land on VI.

--

re: using Corsair's on backline-only in lower-level parties

Outside of the obvious issues of fairness, there are two other issues:

1) By skewing exp gained, you are causing some members to level out of the camp faster than others, which hurts the non-Corsair'ed members (this is not really much of a concern these days, since most parties sync).
2) (more importantly) Every second that you spend rolling is a second that you don't spend killing the mob. By giving Healer's to an RDM that doesn't need it, you are slowing down everyone's exp; by giving Corsair's to an RDM, you are slowing down the exp of the frontline explicitly to increase the exp of the backline. Not many melee who understand this fact will be content with it.

[fren.]

Cor roll also has another perk in that it lets you stay in a zone you're too high for, for an extra level or two.

Thickets Colibri not sucking ass in terms of xp at lv.65 for example.

[Ultimagi]

When did this discussion include merit parties?

Like others have stated, which I did not disagree with, Corsair's Roll is for when you're killing too fast and running out of enemies.

We don't have to live in Russia to believe in fairness.