LM-17

[The Blackrose]

you saw this coming right?

Goddamn it, I chortled with my boss sitting one desk over.

[Miraun]

Definitely a lot of silly high-horses in this thread.

If you enjoy this kind of retaliation, I'm guessing you would enjoy if those caught stealing candy had their hands lopped off?

Well, a bit macabre of a comparison. Either way, even if moral properties don't objectively exist, most of us have innate common sense ideas as to what is quite obviously wrong or quite obviously right. Getting perma banned in this game is the ultimate retaliation possible. One would think it should be reserved for ultimate offenses. Similarly, less severe offenses should merit less severe consequences.

Stop being so black and white about morality. Salvage drop rates were horrible. And you actually did have to do work to pull the trick off. It's not as if something dropped and one person just clicked "dupe," and it was so. Most people didn't sell these drops, most people didn't get drops from this, and most people that did this didn't do it for a very long time. Quite a few of the people involved, I'm sure, didn't know or barely knew what was going on. It may have been wrong to dupe, but stop comparing it to commandeering overly high bank deposits or stealing another person's credit card info. If you wanna kick a man while he's down, it would probably be best if you questioned your own moral virtues.

Shamaya is my new friend.

[Baelorn]

For those saying perma ban should be saved for more severe offenses....What is more severe than using a GameShark-esque cheat in an Online game? Obviously with the exception of RMT practices.

[wintersquall]

hory crap.

wtf is SE thinking? people dupe drops that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to get under normal circumstances... and instead of warning their paying customers and erasing the duped items, they start tossing around perma-bans on people that have paying, playing and working on their characers for FIVE years?

not to mention the sheer smount of employee time spent going through a YEAR worth of logs, that could've been.. oh, i don't know, used to FIX some of the things that are off in FFXI?

i am aghast. yeah, dupers shouldn't have duped, whatever - but to wipe accounts that people have been working on for five years (especially considering how long it takes to get anywhere in the fucking game) is un-fuckin-believeable.

i will NEVER touch another square-enix online product as long as i live, if that's honestly how they feel they can treat their customers. i'm glad they showed their true colors.



and before i hear it, i haven't logged into FFXI since august and i didn't run salvage OR dupe. i'm just appalled at SE's decisions.

[Ashky]

If you enjoy this kind of retaliation, I'm guessing you would enjoy if those caught stealing candy had their hands lopped off?

Yes. This is exactly how I feel. Only thing worse than a cheater is a thief. Saudi Arabia has at least one thing right when it comes to how they treat criminals.

[Nattack]

How should people with low morals be treated?

me being one of the afflicted, feel i have very high morals. higher than most people available. you know when i was 16 I couldnt even deal a mercy stroke to a bird that my cat had mutilated,

of course, i eventually had to. because i was stuck in this moral whirlwind of "if i dont do it, it dies in agony, if i do it, it dies"

duping armor in ffxi once doesnt make me a bad person at all, and i feel absolutely no pain in it.

[chazzyphizzle]

But....but, with windower you can use fillmode and see through walls, just like a GameShark!

[Wuuuuu]

I wonder how many more times people not cheating will be told to get off their moral highground. You guys cheated, you got caught cheating, you pay the price for cheating.

As Destinye said awhile back, the only reason I'm enjoying this so much is because of all the smug, cocky "We won't get banned!" when the glitch was patched. Those are the people I'm laughing at, and those are the people who deserve the ridicule.

Moral highground? Yeah, it is, but it's a moral highground that's currently logged into Final Fantasy XI =)

[Baelorn]

But....but, with windower you can use fillmode and see through walls, just like a GameShark!

Way to avoid answering the question.

[Faris]

Guys who are justifying the duping, i mean cmon.....You don't like SE's way of programming the game? then stop fucking playing.... Instead, you still want to play their game, complain at it, break their law, and when they punish you, you complain some more. fuck.

Mind you, I had the same attitude three years ago.

impressed: Stanislav still stands

[Byrthnoth]

The answer is, like fillmode this glitch made the game easier. The difference is, SE could detect it. So while they do nothing about windower or app, both of which would be within their power to detect if they bothered, they decided to randomly temp or permaban about a third of the people who ever used the glitch.

[Pawky]

duping armor in ffxi once doesnt make me a bad person at all, and i feel absolutely no pain in it.

Can you stop that shit Nattack? I'm kinda liking the lack of reason in this thread, stop ruining it for me.

[Miraun]

If I end up being perma-banned when the info desk opens:

I think I'm just going to set my skype to auto-dial their support line 24/7, altering the number it's dialing.

RETALIATION

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Its not about being on moral high-horses. Its in the ToS we all agreed to when we play this game. Taking advantage of an exploit is a bannable offense. Is it that hard to figure out?

Kid in a candy store getting their head cut off... yes because that makes a lot of sense. Kids dont know better. You do. If you walk into a video game store, that made you sign a waiver that they would cut off your hand if you got caught stealing... would you steal from them? Im pretty sure you wouldnt.... but would you do it in a video game? Apparently. Point is, RL examples dont work here because we are talking about 2 completely different playing fields. People got caught, move on, you did what you are being punished for, and you knew very well what could happen if you did it.

And no, I didnt get banned, and I didnt know about the exploit until it came out into the public. Chances are I would have used it if I had more time though. If I did, and I got banned for it, last thing I would be doing is crying about it because I knew exactly what I was doing and what the consequences could be.

[Destinye]

Yes. This is exactly how I feel. Only thing worse than a cheater is a thief. Saudi Arabia has at least one thing right when it comes to how they treat criminals.

Sorry. I don't see how comparing cheating in a video game and getting laughed at when you get caught is on EVEN THE SAME GRID as getting caught stealing candy and having your hand lopped off.

Still, you can't justify cheating.

The hilarity is:

I duped and I didn't get banned hahaha fuck you SE!

And people got banned in the end.

[Diamicles]

That is a pretty big difference there. We didn't steal credit card info >_>

wooooooooooooooosh

[Octavious]

I don't see why everyone says they deserved it. If you've never played an MMO before I could understand, but seriously. I didn't use the exploit (on the 'didnt know about it' side), but salvage drop rates are god awful I could see why people would. In any other MMO'esque game i've played, there have been exploited programming error,s which are usually fixed (except with PSO, lolduping). I bet half (if nto more) of the people saying "You cheated, you deserved it," didn't know about the exploit till after it was patched. I severely doubt the majority of the people doing salvage would have knowingly rejected the idea of obtaining multiple drops.

[Nattack]

Sorry. I don't see how comparing cheating in a video game and getting laughed at when you get caught is on EVEN THE SAME GRID as getting caught stealing candy and having your hand lopped off.

Still, you can't justify cheating.

The hilarity is:

I duped and I didn't get banned hahaha fuck you SE!

And people got banned in the end.

hmm... arent you the same one who made the bank reference?

fuck I dont know, I'm going to bed. It's been fun. Hope everyone got banned, then we can come back a year later thin and say "haha, fuck your morals"

[Miraun]

Sorry. I don't see how comparing cheating in a video game and getting laughed at when you get caught is on EVEN THE SAME GRID as getting caught stealing candy and having your hand lopped off.

Still, you can't justify cheating.

The hilarity is:

I duped and I didn't get banned hahaha fuck you SE!

And people got banned in the end.

Swoot... now when I call the info center, I can offer names of known hardcore dupers who they missed as an attempt to get unbanned.

[Gredival]

Definitely a lot of silly high-horses in this thread.

If you enjoy this kind of retaliation, I'm guessing you would enjoy if those caught stealing candy had their hands lopped off?

Well, a bit macabre of a comparison. Either way, even if moral properties don't objectively exist, most of us have innate common sense ideas as to what is quite obviously wrong or quite obviously right. Getting perma banned in this game is the ultimate retaliation possible. One would think it should be reserved for ultimate offenses. Similarly, less severe offenses should merit less severe consequences.

Your example is excessive punishment. So is this a matter of questioning the severity of SE's actions? I would argue that abusing a loophole for multiple months to triple your drops is quite high on the list of offenses.

Stop being so black and white about morality. Salvage drop rates were horrible. And you actually did have to do work to pull the trick off. It's not as if something dropped and one person just clicked "dupe," and it was so. Most people didn't sell these drops, most people didn't get drops from this, and most people that did this didn't do it for a very long time. Quite a few of the people involved, I'm sure, didn't know or barely knew what was going on. It may have been wrong to dupe, but stop comparing it to commandeering overly high bank deposits or stealing another person's credit card info. If you wanna kick a man while he's down, it would probably be best if you questioned your own moral virtues instead.

The wallet example isn't about equivocating crimes, it's equivocating principles. The principle that you are entitled to commit a crime (in this case cheating) because there was an opportunity is faulty

You knew what you were doing when you used this trick. You might have had X or Y reasons that led you to do it. But what matters is you made a free and willing choice to do it. You need to accept the consequences for your choices instead of trying to justify it or blame it on SE's coding.

I mean Salvage drops aren't the only rare things, are we going to try argue that botting is legitimate because it helps you get over the difficulty getting Abjurations?