LM-17

[boogers]

Unless you believe SE are gonna write an illegal program to scan out processes your point is still invalid.

It's not illegal until it becomes detected, and even then it has to be proved illegal. We need only look at Sony as an example. I'm not saying SE will do such a thing; my point is that it is a possibility. Given that other companies have done such things, I am not so quick to write all other companies off.

[W1z8it]

He meant players could write programs that aren't picked up by the scanner, not that SE's scanner wouldn't show up. I think that's what he meant anyways.

Yah I got that after, I'm a bit slow lol

If SE wanted to add something like this, it would probably invalidate their own ToS, so it's just not gonna happen.

[boogers]

He meant players could write programs that aren't picked up by the scanner, not that SE's scanner wouldn't show up. I think that's what he meant anyways.

Edit: Wow I totally misread what just happened -- ignore this post!

Thank you -.-

[BRP]

I am pretty sure if SE wanted to ninja it in(and they rarely do), downloading the actual scanner will give you 2 threads on BG before you even get the chance to reach the ToS. So you don't need to be afraid, in any case. They still can't scan us without our permission.

[W1z8it]

Thank you -.-

My apologies

[DancingEdge]

Sure they could, I was just making a point to DancingEdge that they cannot currently detect bots, plugins or windower, I have never disputed the fact if they wanted to they could require you to install a process scanner or PB like program, but they would have done that long ago, the fact the game is played in 3 regions of the world, and each one has completely different laws on the subject, it would be extremely unlikely that they would bother.

Just because they do not currently use it, or you have never seen them use it, does not mean it's not possible that it's there.

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before you'll get this through your thick fucking skull.


I swear to god I'm going to tattoo it on my dick and skullfuck you. Then maybe you'll get it.

[boogers]

I am curious, though. Were there any players who were perma-banned for salvage-only duping (and at the same time lotted nothing outside of cells)?

[bolkin]

Check out my new Avatar.

[W1z8it]

Just because they do not currently use it, or you have never seen them use it, does not mean it's not possible that it's there.

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before you'll get this through your thick fucking skull.


I swear to god I'm going to tattoo it on my dick and skullfuck you. Then maybe you'll get it.

Oh god it's back, you're a moron, sorry folks it has to be said

[Tubbers]

Just because they do not currently use it, or you have never seen them use it, does not mean it's not possible that it's there.

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before you'll get this through your thick fucking skull.


I swear to god I'm going to tattoo it on my dick and skullfuck you. Then maybe you'll get it.

The point with this is that it is illegal to do. Regardless of whether the means to do it exist, SE cannot legally scan your computer without updating the ToS, hence making it legal. Because this article doesn't exist in the ToS, it cannot be done at this time.

[Okan]

I read the ToS every time it changes, yes. The whole thing. And every time it changes I'm fairly certain they are required to make it show up. They did the last three times it has changed for sure.

When it comes to reading processes, NO you cannot add it without your knowledge. If they want to change something within their own closed system YES they can add it without your consent, however applications that read systems they doesn't control and own themselves they cannot just randomly decide to scan without people's consent.

Now SE has every right to control their system, however they do not legally have the right to control other people's system or monitor them. Which is BRPs and my point, you don't need to have extensive legal knowledge to realize this.

Now my line of experise IS NOT integrity law, its copyright law, so take my words with a grain of salt. I do however know enough about integrity law to know you cannot just add it to their system without your prior consent (and have to inform you that they have changed the system).

I want to preface this with it's been about 5-6 years since I sat down and worked knee deep in EULA/TOS agreements. That is quite a lot of time when talking about PC technology and the changing laws/rules of what can and cannot be done.

From my experience working with EULA/TOS and all that in an Information Assurance Office, once you agree to the initial EULA/TOS they can pretty much do what they want. Even as much as bill you $100,000 (or more) for every additional PC you installed their application on after the initial installation. This is actually highly common for a lot of simple software like that attached to digital cameras and file viewing software (picture editing, adobe products, etc). Most companies notify you to build trust within their customer base, but this does not mean they have to let you know. [Side note: You'd be amazed at the amount of freeware that forbids government usage.]

[Suteru]

You guys are arguing as if SE actually had the technical prowess to make a system scanner that worked.

FFXI is basically a PS2 Emulator, remember?

[W1z8it]

You guys are arguing as if SE actually had the technical prowess to make a system scanner that worked.

FFXI is basically a PS2 Emulator, remember?

Completely valid point, and destroys anything more DancingEdge can say from now on, they cannot have one system for PS2 and another for PC, they've made that clear on many ocassions, what's it called, oh yeah they call it "PS2" limitations, now please do shut up DancingEdge you idiot.

Suteru is smarter than all of us for noticing that part we missed lol.

[BRP]

Okan, if you want to speak about practicality, you should at least read my previous post.

Like BG is going to be quiet while their computer is scanned. You'll know.

[Tubbers]

The ninja EULA/TOS changes you're talking about which charged you money, etc. were deemed illegal (I think). I recall reading about a court case involving this. Doesn't mean I'm right, though. Does anyone know where to sift through to find those laws? Going to google for now.

[Tempyst]

Just because they do not currently use it, or you have never seen them use it, does not mean it's not possible that it's there.

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before you'll get this through your thick fucking skull.


I swear to god I'm going to tattoo it on my dick and skullfuck you. Then maybe you'll get it.

Do you always get this angry when people know more things than you

[DancingEdge]

The point with this is that it is illegal to do. Regardless of whether the means to do it exist, SE cannot legally scan your computer without updating the ToS, hence making it legal. Because this article doesn't exist in the ToS, it cannot be done at this time.

It might be slightly pedantic, but then again isn't this entire argument?

Can we please differentiate can not and should not?


Just because they would need to rewrite the ToS to do it, does not mean that the functionality may not already exist.


I don't recall saying that anything was likely, unlikely, probable, improbable, or anything along those lines, with regards to if things loaded into the .exe or other processes modifying ffxi, were or were not potentially detectable.



Whatshisface is just butthurt that I was adhomming him off the bat. QQ more fishbotter.

[Okan]

Okan, if you want to speak about practicality, you should at least read my previous post.

Like BG is going to be quiet while their computer is scanned. You'll know.

You posted that last one while I was typing my last post. I am usually a tad slow typing out my thought process in a way that will be coherent to others. >.>

@Tubbers:
I wouldn't be surprised. As I said, I was doing this in 03ish time frame and with the amount of things that people were getting away with by just doing an "EULA", which by the way most were bullshit at the time, was amazing. I've read ones that charged almost a million dollars for every computer the software was installed on after 4 PCs. I've read ones that allowed them to install almost anything that they wanted after the initial install -- this is why so many PCs had/have stupid IE addons, like 37 different toolbars. (The rest come from people who just nextnextnext their way through any thing that needs to be installed without actually paying any attention as to what is going on). A huge amount of people don't take time to read, or even browse through these things.

[hagun]

Check out my new Avatar.

You are wearing shura kote in your sig. Even though it's a meaningless sig, you must repent for such a sin.

Back to the meaningless arguing.

[DancingEdge]

Completely valid point, and destroys anything more DancingEdge can say from now on, they cannot have one system for PS2 and another for PC, they've made that clear on many ocassions, what's it called, oh yeah they call it "PS2" limitations, now please do shut up DancingEdge you idiot.

Suteru is smarter than all of us for noticing that part we missed lol.

Yes, because all the functionality Windower adds to PC could be added to PS2, rite? Cause I mean, like, they're the same thing, same systems, rite? rite?

Nothing could pooooosssibly be different or modified in the PC version of the game.... nooooope.

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