LM-17

[Raelz]

They should just take away all the duped gear and slap a week suspension on them.

Also, lolcheaters.

See, that's what every person in my salvage group said when we had a discussion about the duping. "Just take the gear away from them, fix the glitch, and temp-ban them."

In all honesty, it depends on your view of punishments fitting crimes; in this case, I believe the punishment, in a subjective sense, is hard-pressed to fit the crime. Some people who were banned, could very well be admirable, good people, who didn't deserve such a harsh form of justice. However, when you agree to someone else's rules, you play by them.

This is all a case of a large number of people, rationalizing through assumption. There was a glitch, and people used the glitch, while utilizing any number of justifications for it. Ex:

"Oh they'll never ban us for it, it's just gear."
"It's their glitch, it's not like we are doing anything wrong in reality, it's their responsibility to fix the problem."
"Salvage drops rates are horrible, I might as well dupe stuff now while I can, or I may never get the gear."

So much horrible logic form that I can scarcely find words. Each argument ignores the implicit premise that people agreed to upon joining the game: No cheating, no exploiting, no duping, etc..

Now, I do not take pleasure in people getting banned for it. Keeping in mind that I have done 175+ salvage runs, many would assume that makes me rather silly. The fact of the matter is, why should I delight in other people's misfortune? I do however, understand why these actions were taken. To paraphrase what has already been written:

-You agreed to a set of rules.
-These rules states clearly, that you cannot cheat(duping, exploiting) ever.
- You cheated.

THEREFORE

You were banned for cheating.

While you may not, subjectively, deserve it, in a large player-base, one cannot expect the provider to take every single case into account on it's own merits. It would take months for them to process the ridiculous e-docket this would entail. It really is that cut and dry, while I feel bad for the people who made stupid decisions, I loathe the ones who are trying to justify their spite toward their punishment.

"Steal candy, hand lopped off."

Argumentum Ad Absurdum. Clear cut, as well. If the penalty for stealing candy, was lopping off of hands (like it may be in, I don't know, Riyadh), then you should probably go out of your fucking way to pay for candy.

If the penalty for cheating, is being banned.

You probably shouldn't cheat.

[Cream Soda]

Anyone with AV items, PW items, or multiple relics get banned?

[drwaffles]

Yeah, all that's left on Bismarck now is shit and Lunies. Sorry I didn't reply to your PM, Miz, I was in the middle of typing when I tried to log on this morning.

[Bwelch]

Come on Sylph! Reveal yourself!

http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/imag...al/281x211.jpg

[Diamicles]

From my understanding this glitch has been around for quite some time. I know of a few shells on Asura that were using this glitch for the majority of 2008. I was made aware of it a few months before SE. Like the other 900 people I chose to put this to its fullest.

I'm a tad upset, I wont lie and say this doesn't hurt. I've put a lot of time into the game and surely the rewards did not justify this. I really thought I'd go out in a blaze of glory rather then banned for 2 salvage drops.

I do regret the choice to drag others into this mess. I am a leader of a end game shell, and currently hold almost 100% of the shells inventory. Not only did I screw things up for those under my watch, I pulled 6-8 players down with me. To those people I cannot say this enough. I am sorry for what I have done. This is my fault and I accept the blame and anger because of the choice I made.

I am currently unaware of my punishment, though it is more likely I'm part of the 56% that wont see their accounts again. With that being said, I'd encourage those of you taking joy in this to learn the lessons we're learning right now.

I did not cause harm to anyone in this game threw my actions until today. If anything the choice to exploit the drop pool made the majority of us very happy until SE chose to punish us for our actions.

I also would like to refute the idea that I am an immoral person. It's hard to confirm this in such a place as this, but my track record in real life would show I am a man of morals. I've never been fired from a job, never slept around while I was in a relationship, never stolen money, manipulated friends, or committed a crime beyond a simple traffic violation. I don't shit on my neighbors and steal from children. So get over it, I know I will.

Final Fantasy is a game, and like anything in this world there are fanatics to match. While you may love this game as much as I do, I beg you to take your emotion out of the situation and consider what exactly you're putting your time into. Square-Enix has proven time and time again they will protect their creation over what the player base would like it to be. This salvage glitch is not only another example of weight SE's ideals put on there players, but would completely consume the issue in itself.

Either way I saw someone say no one was owning up on the thread, so here you are. Hope you guys can poke some holes in what I said and continue to take joy in the whole situation in general. Really speaks to your higher standard to point fingers and kick others.

I for one am sad to see you go animus, I thought you did a great job leading your shell.

[Ker]

Jesus that like 20+ Relic down the drain in Bismarck good job.

[ninjafox]

Nuuuuuuuuuuuu Baroom

[Dazd]

Anyone with AV items, PW items, or multiple relics get banned?

So far a few on Bismarck did.

[Belkin]

More names from Bahamut. Do it.

[Recaldy]

Anyone with AV items, PW items, or multiple relics get banned?

Where you been? :<

[Day]

I for one am sad to see you go animus, I thought you did a great job leading your shell.

Cept for that part where they exploited and got themselves, their friends and the ls bank banned I'd prolly agree.

[Kaibelf]

lol, that was funny

Sadly, I only had to think of Csestaminx for the whole list.

[Arthars]

minidragon? jackyl?

the only 2 i can think of, not sure if perma tho.
but by looking at the people that got perma-ed based on their magnitude of exploit, im pretty sure mini and jacky will get perma-ed........

it seems leaders gets the perma ban because based on logs, leaders give out instructions to members and prolly concrete enough to be the major exploiter

[sruon]

So far a few on Bismarck did.

Like 3 mars's ring, 1 minerva and 2 sash lost so far on Bismarck.

[Hogie]

Real World Logic
Police>> You robbed a bank. You go to jail.

BG Logic
Police>> You robbed a bank. You go to jail.
Robber>> They shouldn't have made the bank robbable and just given me money because I wanted it
Police>> Good point. Don't try to find and rob any more banks.
Robber>> But it will be their fault for being robbable.
Police>> Good point again. Carry on.

^this

Anyone who is saying its SE's fault for making it a flaw is like saying, pleading innocent to murder after you have taken a picture with the dead corpse and a knife in your hand.... you broke the TOS and by accepting them every single time you play, you agreed now to take advantage of any exploits and to report them to GMs.

[Tempyst]

It won't be a huge BG joke when half of BG does get banned because SE cares more about their game than their money.

(rofl, yeah right.)

I agree.

I am so mad how many SSR we have done in the past and never getting to dupe it. LOL because It never drops anyway.

It's SE's fault for not coding properly.

Duping Diablo II items is no different than in FFXI. It's just that Square-Enix has a terms of service.

To them, banning you is nothing. To [you], you lose years of building up your character. I just don't think SE rewards their player base enough. We should be running the show, not them. Their paychecks come from us. We cheat to compensate for what they can't give us. That's my rationalization. I'm proud of "cheating."

good work champ

[Ker]

On Plus side people who got reject from the big HNM ls may get accepted now

[kayn]

So with all these LS banks getting the banstick, what will this months RMT update look like as far as gil removed from circulation? Though I'm sure this gil won't fall into their statistics.

[Darkrift]

To the people that did use exploit.

The exploit was around for so long that i could see how people start to think of it as a norm. I dont care if ppl used the exploit or not. I would have used it if I knew about it, and I would have a perma ban if i did. I already have a ding on my account for speed hacking a long time ago.

I dont really lol at the people who got banned. I feel bad for them... 4-5 years of hard work for using an exploit that should be allowed due to the



COMPLETE FUCKING HORRIBLE DROP RATE OF SALVAGE.



but ya... thats too bad. People shouldnt say though "ohh im glad i got banned i needed to quit anyways" Sure in some way you may think that, but you know you want to keep playing.

[Ashky]

I am almost willing to let the cheaters come back to the game, but, they have to always have some kind of scar or something that basically shows "I cheated and got caught." I would like to say a specific, unchangeable title, but I think it should be even more obvious than that.


Very similar to what Microsoft did for the people who were cheating on GamerScore points on 360. I thought that was brilliant.