LM-17

[Charismatic]

What the fuck? make sense before you talk. Most of the people who got banned were normal people who just wanted an easy way out... like me. My other ID was banned, it's over whatever there are more games. But the shit that you're saying that they're RMT??? These are rare/ex items they were copying, or alex if they sold it maybe to make gil. But they weren't idiot noob RMT running around in there. QFT if you have no idea of the shit that you're saying.

No. You have no idea what he's saying.

[Mizango]

Arthars - Viewing Profile

Word on the street is that Windower isn't approved by Square Enix.

Also heard people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

QQ ?

[Secondary]

You are Aegis will be used as your tombstone?

How the heck did you manage to use it twice but spell it differently?

Was going to type something else, and got side tracked.

[Recaldy]

Bismark got hit hard. lolol

[Dimmauk]

Arthars - Viewing Profile

Word on the street is that Windower isn't approved by Square Enix.

Also heard people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Yup cause Duping items and drops is the same thing as using a windower. Explain how a windower gets you more gils and items?

[Day]

Arthars - Viewing Profile

Word on the street is that Windower isn't approved by Square Enix.

Also heard people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

l o l notice how Arthars isn't banned?

[Mythe_Seraph]

No. You have no idea what he's saying.

Haha, I love this thread. All I have to do is press F5 and someone else has already replied with what I would say!

[Takie]

I got a LM-17, only used dupe once, i phoned PoL right away, he said "because your case was not as serious as others, you have been given a temp suspension till midnight on the 26th"

Called & received the same answer

[Seraph]

I'm probably about to get whooshed, but is Odin really open again? Can I actually make another damn mule to store my shit finally?

I assume people were only joking around, so I am expecting incomming disappointment.

[Linktri]

Hay Lahan.

Damn. I know that a lot of ppl didn't like them but shit, they paid me far out the ass for Cloud Evokers. Paid for my HQ staves. I'd like them back. (I like money).

[Shuemue]

It's quite simple, if you suck so bad, or you're so greedy, that you need to cheat at an MMO, you deserve whatever you get.

I'm almost tempted to reactivate my account just to place a GM call and praise SE.

[Jaybar]

Only one Valkyrie Fork, phew.

[Charismatic]

Yup cause Duping items and drops is the same thing as using a windower. Explain how a windower gets you more gils and items?

Well, it gets you PW items!

ZING!

[Raelz]

Wow, not only is this example not even logically correct, it isn't even remotely analogous to the issue:

FFXI players pay for the service of playing FFXI. It is SE's responsibility to deliver a working game. The duping glitch was an example of SE failing miserably. The bug was known and reported many, many months before it was fixed. I recall several people mentioning reporting it during the initial findings of it. This is negligence on the part of SE. If someone pays you to take care of their dog, and you forget to put food in its bowl, it's your fucking fault if the dog starves to death or gets sick, etc. If someone comes and steals the dog, guess what it's your fault.

In this case, SE if failing to deliver the product s.t. there are known errors with the game which are left unattended for months and months and months, and rather than acting quickly to restore this, and issuing the players who abused it a stern warning, they wait and wait an wait, and simply ban the majority of the people using it?

Whether it is right or wrong, when an issue is known and ignored it is tacitly condoned.

To put this another way -- let's assume you're in a room with someone else, and you set some rules. Under no circumstances is the other person allowed to "exploit bugs". You don't want him to open the door to the outside and to ensure this, you ask your task force to make sure the deal is sealed and locked shut. Eventually a passerby opens the door from the outside, and it is discovered that the locks completely suck and don't work -- it's just a normal door. He tells you this. The other person in the room, witnessing the door opening, eventually opens it himself and then stares at you for 30 seconds. You say nothing. The other person then continues to open the door and use it. 5 months later you shoot the other person in the head and kill him, stating, "Motherfucker you opened the fucking door."

Your logic, honestly, isn't as flawed here, but it still is.. You stated:

"Whether it is right or wrong, when an issue is known and ignored it is tacitly condoned."

This is really ridiculous. So now, people are implying that SE set all of these people up? One big humongous giant ridiculous sting operation?

There have been many glitches in the game; some that have gone unnoticed for large gaps of time. This was kept hush-hush, for so long, that my group which is ravenous about salvage information and the like, never heard about it, keeping in mind we've been going since the inception of the event.

I think it's entirely plausible, that they did not know of the glitch, until recently, and took the corrective measures while punishing the offending players.

Both examples you give are appeals to emotion or absurdity, the logic isn't too horribly formed, but it still ignores the basic premise that, "You agreed not to cheat, and that if you cheat, you can be banned."

As someone else stated as well, duping, in any form, is the MMO mortal sin. Can't do it, even if the game is flawed in a way that allows for it. It says that you will be punished for it, even in that circumstance, in the ToS. Even if salvage drop rates are horrid, that's not SE's fault, some people have exceptional drop rates, some don't, it's random and luck based and you knew that going in.

Ultimately, the dog example would correctly be stated as:

If you had a large number of dogs, and each was trained thoroughly to not attack children, and they did it anyway, it's your fault when the state euthenizes them.

Sure, people will cry and moan that the dogs didn't deserve to die, that the little girl or boy whose face they mauled was provoking them, however, you can't very well leave that dog out to maul more faces can you? Do you value human beings, or dogs? Or, more appropriately, do you value honest players more than dishonest ones?

In some of these cases, rehabilitation is in order, which is probably the intended effect of the temporary ban. In some cases, where the people did it, over and over, throwing caution to the wind, what was SE to do?

The cheaters decisions are basic irrationality. The human brain only factors in honesty when the transgressions are major. "It's just a game, I'll just do it so I can finally get my gear." I'd venture to guess that the majority of people who utilized the exploit were culpable of thinking this way at least once. It lessens the burden of honesty, and makes it very easy to justify to oneself actions that are not honest. With the transgression's weight diminished, they are free to cheat as much as they want. However, they are STILL cheating, and STILL breaking the ToS. Don't like the ToS? Don't play.

Placing the onus on SE is patently absurd. 500,000 players are not a case-by-case basis. Every single one of them agreed to the ToS, they agreed not to cheat. Those who cheated a little, were shown leniency, those who cheated a lot, were shown none. You don't agree to something, and then break the agreement, and then when you are punished, be offended that you were.

Also, sorry to anyone who cheated, and isn't a dog.

[kayn]

No. You have no idea what he's saying.

Exactly

[RakEx]

Called & received the same answer

Dude WTF?! You are still playing? Seriously? You is crazy..

Good luck...

[Day]

It's quite simple, if you suck so bad, or you're so greedy, that you need to cheat at an MMO, you deserve whatever you get.

I'm almost tempted to reactivate my account just to place a GM call and praise SE.

I don't think you've ever once let me down shew

[Darrien]

Valefor got hit hard. From what i've heard and seen over half the End Game shells are temp or perma. Next 3 days gonna be fun HNM. Some shells lost 80%+ so good times.

[Tempyst]

Wow what a fucking peice of shit.

1. Salvage is easy as shit, there is no need to dupe cells.

2. You have to have to armor to drop to make this work in the first place.

3. Yes it worked with alex, and that isnt a bad thing.

4. Most of the people here didnt know about this for 2 years.

5. No one will get banned, there is no way to track it and no way to tag the items.

Im not going to ethug, but it's people like you that make me wish I could hit someone through the internet.

I'm going to point to this post whenever someone makes a post in advanced insisting they know specifically how this game is coded

[Samuraiking]

Yup cause Duping items and drops is the same thing as using a windower. Explain how a windower gets you more gils and items?

Seriously? Is this a joke question? It's against the ToS, just like not reporting glitches. I don't agree they shud have gotten banned, but this was traceable, windower isn't.

Duping was fixable and a small amount of ppl doing it(as far as total population goes) so it was np for them to delete them, even if they cud track ppl using windower they arent deleting 50%+ of their playerbase for it.