Kotaku: Hundreds Of Players Banned In Final Fantasy XI

[Lordwafik]

Links?

Can't link to a deleted topic! But one thing that comes to mind was when the GM manuals were leaked onto BG forums in PDF format.

[Khalil]

Links?

Didn't they threaten BG to remove the links to the GM Manual?

[Cow_k]

That could be considered company secrets though, not anything involved in game. Most companies can sue over leaked procedures etc. It's a little like if someone went public with KFC's 6 herbs and spices or whatever that shit is.

[Tagus]

Can't link to a deleted topic! But one thing that comes to mind was when the GM manuals were leaked onto BG forums in PDF format.

Wow... I truly wish I saw that one... although I imagine it reads like 1000 different versions of the statement, "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down."

[Rockstaru]

Wow... I truly wish I saw that one... although I imagine it reads like 1000 different versions of the statement, "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down."

That, and the fact that Sage Sundi's personal phone number was at the end of it.

[Brill Weave]

The point is that this topic has been played out. Once again, you've established your moral high ground against we evil evil people who don't think it's our responsibility to fix SE's game for them. You flat out said that almost all MMORPG's have statements in their ToS saying we, the players, must report to them any exploits we happen to come across. Your entire rebuttal was based on a comment that was never stated. For as much as you're telling people to learn what they are talking about, you're awful quick to dismiss your own comments that are completely offbase and then conveniently never acknowledge said bogus statements.

You're flip flopping more than a politician. Pick a statement, back it up, when you're wrong and spout off incorrect information, admit it.

I'm out before you start referencing Hitler and the Jews.

[ringthree]

The point is that this topic has been played out. Once again, you've established your moral high ground against we evil evil people who don't think it's our responsibility to fix SE's game for them. You flat out said that almost all MMORPG's have statements in their ToS saying we, the players, must report to them any exploits we happen to come across. Your entire rebuttal was based on a comment that was never stated. For as much as you're telling people to learn what they are talking about, you're awful quick to dismiss your own comments that are completely offbase and then conveniently never acknowledge said bogus statements.

You're flip flopping more than a politician. Pick a statement, back it up, when you're wrong and spout off incorrect information, admit it.

I'm out before you start referencing Hitler and the Jews.

Dude, give it up.

Cheaters got caught, and cheaters got banned.

Anything after that is an excuse.

Just shut the fuck up, already.

[The Blackrose]

Didn't they threaten BG to remove the links to the GM Manual?

Yes, they did.

[fussel]

Wow... I truly wish I saw that one...

Took me less than 5 minutes to google it.

[Day]

Why do people want to always associate blame with just 1 target?

Personally, I think there's enough blame to go around. Although, as Kaako noted in his LJ, inherently blame doesn't matter much, since only the player is punishable.

Then maybe, just maybe, it's the cheating players fault? DING DING DING I THINK WE HAVE A WEINER.

[Kenji]

Can't link to a deleted topic! But one thing that comes to mind was when the GM manuals were leaked onto BG forums in PDF format.

That could be considered company secrets though, not anything involved in game. Most companies can sue over leaked procedures etc. It's a little like if someone went public with KFC's 6 herbs and spices or whatever that shit is.

This.

Something that's supposed to be internal to company, and is leaked, is fair grounds for legal action. It might be considered a trade secret. At the very least, internal documents usually have a disclaimer that they are for internal use only, and if you are someone not in the company and somehow got one, that you're supposed to return it and notify the company how you got it.

If this is the only legal action that was ever used against BG, then we can safely say that it falls into a different realm than game exploits. One is secret company documents that exist outside the game, and the other is an exploit that anyone can find in the game. Thus I still don't see any legal action taken against BG for revealing an ingame exploit.

And Brill Godwin'ed the thread. Good night everybody!

[Tagus]

Took me less than 5 minutes to google it.

Sorry, I guess I should have elaborated. I wish I would have saw it on BG because google searches are blocked from my work internets, but for some reason BG is not... and when I get home I'd rather play the game than read about it online.

Meh...

Topic is dead.

Let's all move on.

[Brill Weave]

Oh my God. I killed the thread. Who will entertain me now?!!!

[Tagus]

Oh my God. I killed the thread. Who will entertain me now?!!!

I was thinking about going over to the "does SE send you a letter when they ban you" thread and making fun of the OP, but my head just isn't in this today.

[Brill Weave]

Could always talk about puppies. Or gumdrops.

[aurik]

Something that's supposed to be internal to company, and is leaked, is fair grounds for legal action. It might be considered a trade secret. At the very least, internal documents usually have a disclaimer that they are for internal use only, and if you are someone not in the company and somehow got one, that you're supposed to return it and notify the company how you got it.

If this is the only legal action that was ever used against BG, then we can safely say that it falls into a different realm than game exploits. One is secret company documents that exist outside the game, and the other is an exploit that anyone can find in the game. Thus I still don't see any legal action taken against BG for revealing an ingame exploit.

More nebulous references to "exploits", hooray. So "exploits" are OK, but SE internal-only information is not.

Tell me, is Taj's FL+ hack an "exploit" for which we should have published a step by step how-to guide?
What about the enmity information that Kaeko reverse engineered?
What about MrArgus or POS-hacking tutorials?

The point is, you are not a moderator nor an admin. You have no control what content is allowed to be posted here. So stop backseat-moderating in the form of bitching about moderator actions you don't agree with.

[Raineer]

I don't think it matters whether any of us can "foresee legal action being taken against BG". Who the hell is any standard poster here to determine the amount of risk a website should take on their behalf?

[Kenji]

More nebulous references to "exploits", hooray. So "exploits" are OK, but SE internal-only information is not.

Tell me, is Taj's FL+ hack an "exploit" for which we should have published a step by step how-to guide?
What about the enmity information that Kaeko reverse engineered?
What about MrArgus or POS-hacking tutorials?

The point is, you are not a moderator nor an admin. You have no control what content is allowed to be posted here. So stop backseat-moderating in the form of bitching about moderator actions you don't agree with.

I never said I had control over what was posted.

But, I suppose if you have such a big problem figuring out the difference between an exploit (which you have no clue what it is, anyway) and a leaked internal document, then I suppose that's it, then. If it's that tough to figure out, maybe you should, like consider modding some people who do know?

Just a thought. And no, I don't want the job. Too constricting. Although I'll be glad to let you know what's an exploit and what's not, in the future, if you have questions. And what you can get in legal trouble for vs. something that doesn't need to be quashed in fear. Or you could ask one of the other hundreds of players here, with whom that's not an issue.

[Correction]

I never said I had control over what was posted

You've certainly demonstrated nothing less than an utter lack of control over what you've posted.

You're asking BG to gamble with the willingness of SE lawyers to bring forward some potentially very expensive legal challenges based on your terrible assumptions of what the worst-case scenario could be.

Guess what, your legal expertise is not enough of an asset to these forums for the responsible parties to take that risk. And it never will be. Your brain seems impervious to this notion but I swear to you it's true.

[Whaleporn]

Hello everyone. I'm Raymond R. Fafs of the FBI's MMO website taskforce division, also known as Wolf ops. It seems there's some confusion about what's fair game and what's not in terms of posting or not posting information on a private web site. This is an important issue, that we should talk about. If you don't talk about it, we will waterboard a BG admin until you do.

Let me start off by saying this issue is important and should be talked about. In fact, once you reach a conclusion from this thread you should contact your senator and let them know how you feel on people avoiding litigation and if you feel it should be allowed. Keep calling him and emailing him about how unfair it is that BG sometimes takes information down. If you are not represented, it's your duty to vote for the other party next election.

Let me remind you that at one point, when a group of cyber terrorist beastmasters were going to MPK the president, I had to torture someone to get GM documents. So this is an important issue, and deserves some focus and perhaps conversation. Also, if I knew about exploits such as duping, I would not have needed to kill all those immigrants to get the Denali gear I used to sneak into that cell. Sorry to vague middle easterners/eastern Europeans everywhere.

Let's also remember the time that BG admins had to decide between hosting documents that might cause them legal trouble, or letting a child die. Talking about it now will help you sort through your feelings before this situation comes to pass. Again, this is an important issue. It's obvious that any time they remove exploit information or leave it on, it's specifically to kill people or launder gil through rollanberry mules out of the drug trade. Not just because square is a huge international juggernaut and BG is a fansite and some exploits will clearly get them in trouble, but because they get erections posting some exploits and not others. Talk about this.

We'd like to remind you that the FBI knows what exploits you used, and when you used them. That's right, that time you asked a friend to log on using AIM? Exploit. The LFG system is there for a reason, son. That time you killed a monster with full items so someone out of zone could get the drop? Exploit, monsters drop instant non-transferable loot for a reason. Tabbing around to find monsters behind walls? Well, looks like someone is MAPHACKING. That's right, the FBI KNOWS and I wouldn't talk if I were you, but you should anyway because these are important issues.

Thanks for your time talking about this issues. Wolf ops might have been disbanded, and we might have to do our next operation to save the president from people who disengage with great axes rogue, but we know BG is behind us or not on these issues which they can clearly decide will or will not get them in trouble.