Sportsmanship!!

[Seraph]

Read Tyche's post:

You call a time out and tell your players
1) no outside shots
2) no full press
3) 5-10 passes before a shot
etc

These players lose every game. They know they're terrible. They won't be offended if you use the game time to practice good habits rather than run up the score.

I guess that works, but it's still apparent how poor of a match-up it is. Just seems like a waste of time to me though. Also you forgot one:

4) Just go home

[Serif]

Read Tyche's post:

You call a time out and tell your players
1) no outside shots
2) no full press
3) 5-10 passes before a shot
etc

These players lose every game. They know they're terrible. They won't be offended if you use the game time to practice good habits rather than run up the score.

Speaking from personal experience practicing against people who obviously can't play worth shit. It isn't fun and would be fucking worthless, practice wise, to pass around a ball 5-10 times.

[aurik]

So what's the value in running up the score to 100-0? What worth does that have in it?

[Seraph]

So what's the value in running up the score to 100-0? What worth does that have in it?

Winning team is entertained for the duration of the event. Playing to have fun, and all that. A better question is 'what's the value in playing pass-the-ball instead of basketball?'

We also would have accepted 'What's the value in playing grade school girl's basketball?'

[archibaldcrane]

They probably could've scored 150 if they wanted. How much restraint is enough? That's just a judgment call.

[aurik]

Winning team is entertained for the duration of the event. Playing to have fun, and all that. A better question is 'what's the value in playing pass-the-ball instead of basketball?'

We also would have accepted 'What's the value in playing grade school girl's basketball?'

Oh, I see, the value in winning 100-0 is that it's fun to slaughter the other team mercilessly. Good message for amateur sports, right!

There actually is a lot more value in playing "pass-the-ball" than running up the score, but I'll leave that as an exercise for you to figure out.

[Seraph]

Oh, I see, the value in winning 100-0 is that it's fun to slaughter the other team mercilessly. Good message for amateur sports, right!

There actually is a lot more value in playing "pass-the-ball" than running up the score, but I'll leave that as an exercise for you to figure out.

No, there is a definite difference between slaughtering the other team, and not holding back to the point of ridiculousness. You seem to imply that a hour long game of keep away is more emotionally sparing than losing 100-0 in a basketball game. I would say that's a poor assumption.

My point of 'pass-the-ball' is at that point you are just going through the motions, and there are much more productive social exercises a group of kids can do in an hour. You might as well play freeze-tag or have a group discussion about their favorite movie. Competitive sports lose their point when they are no longer competitive. I understand you are trying to make the point of 'having mercy', but in the end I come back to my comment of "At that point why even bother playing anymore?"

[Penthesilea]

If I was the girls on the other team, I woulda just walked off the court.

I've been on the bad end of a loss, 15-5 soccer game, but also have dealt out some nice scores like 16-2, etc. The 15-5 game I sat down because there was no way we'd have won, considering 2 of those goals game in junk time.

[Tyche]

But you are getting away from the initial debate. Why is what this guy did an example of bad coaching? If there was no obvious threat to the players on either team, how is how he handled it a problem?

You seem very irked at the situation, and I'm asking how you would do it differently. If any combination of players is scoring points against the other team, how (and why) would you go about 'slowing things down' without it being obviously insulting to the other team? You can't just yell 'slow down, these guys suck' on the court.

In the end, how do you let the other team without it being totally obvious? Plus, how do you even keep the game fun at that point? The worse team is still going to lose, and the winning team has to now go through the motions to burn off the clock. That seems pretty pointless to me.


Edit: What annoys me is that the coach was asked to apologize for doing nothing wrong. I wouldn't 'fake apologize' for some bullshit reason either. Saying you are sorry because the other team is garbage is just horrible, and I can't even imagine how tey would try to spin it to make it sound sincere.

You put it on this track not me by saying a coach didn't influence the score =/. 5 Starters start the game and I'm leading 25-0 after the first quarter against a team I'm obviously outmatching, I throw in the bench first and foremost. This is after the first quarter of 25-0. If it's 2 players, 3 players, 4 players, whatever, as many bench players as I can get in are going in. If you press any on defense when up 20+ and holding a team to single digits, you sit a game. If you shoot a 3, you sit a game. If you score on a fast break, you sit a game. Everytime the ball doesn't touch at least 5 different sets of hands during an offensive set, that's a mile for every player next practice. If you intentionally foul when the other team is on a fast break, 1 game. I'm not so mad that the score was that ridiculous as much as being mad the coach didn't realize it was egregious and could have slowed the bleeding. Why even cut the fourth quarter down to 12 points if you didn't have that magical "100" ingrained in your head? The coach said "Oh, I would never allow the score to be ran up", he did, after all only allowed 12 points in the fourth. Yeah, after a cumulative 88 points in the first three quarters. How hard is it to start slowing your pace after the first buzzer sounds? There's 20 ways to slow a game down to 15ish points a quarter without holding the ball on offense for 3 minutes a set.

[aurik]

No, there is a definite difference between slaughtering the other team, and not holding back to the point of ridiculousness. You seem to imply that a hour long game of keep away is more emotionally sparing than losing 100-0 in a basketball game. I would say that's a poor assumption.

My point of 'pass-the-ball' is at that point you are just going through the motions, and there are much more productive social exercises a group of kids can do in an hour. You might as well play freeze-tag or have a group discussion about their favorite movie. Competitive sports lose their point when they are no longer competitive. I understand you are trying to make the point of 'having mercy', but in the end I come back to my comment of "At that point why even bother playing anymore?"

Because there is value in being able to win 100-0 and choosing not to.

[Seraph]

5 Starters start the game and I'm leading 25-0 after the first quarter against a team I'm obviously outmatching, I throw in the bench first and foremost. This is after the first quarter of 25-0. If it's 2 players, 3 players, 4 players, whatever, as many bench players as I can get in are going in. If you press any on defense when up 20+ and holding a team to single digits, you sit a game. If you shoot a 3, you sit a game. If you score on a fast break, you sit a game. Everytime the ball doesn't touch at least 5 different sets of hands during an offensive set, that's a mile for every player next practice.

But when you do that, the game stops being basketball. If I was a player on a team like that, I just wouldn't show up to practice. I understand the concept of mercy, but it just seems like the bigger issue here is the mismatch, and not that the coach didn't keep the points gap under 100, or 50, or 25, or 10, or 5, etc.

[Seraph]

Because there is value in being able to win 100-0 and choosing not to.

Then why not take it a step further and not play at all? This isn't a father playing his young son and enjoying letting the kid beat him, or come close. It's two actual teams playing the game. I don't think that value necessarily applies in this case.

[aurik]

But when you do that, the game stops being basketball. If I was a player on a team like that, I just wouldn't show up to practice.

Then you fail the test, which is learning discipline.

[Tyche]

The game stopped being about basketball when the score was 50-something to zilch after the first half. And if you didn't show up to practice, that's fine. I don't need any players who have the "it's about me, I'm not showing up to practice" attitude. If you don't want to practice for the 18 other competitive game we'll have this season, fine with me. I'm so Bill Parcells that I shit tuna.

[Seraph]

Then you fail the test, which is learning discipline.

Kinda hard to come off a response like that without sounding like a dick, but I'd call it a waste of time and growth opportunity instead of learning discipline. If you are playing basketball to get good at basketball, and to play basketball, and end up wasting your play time because everyone you play against isn't up to par, wouldn't it be time to join a different team or league?

Discipline is playing against a team fairly and when all is said and done shaking their hand at the end of the game. I see no honor or discipline in throwing a game, or screwing around to keep the scores close. It's just as arbitrary as playing as you normally would against a regular opponent.

The real discipline would be in treating them as equals, and not implying you are better than them by changing how you play to spare their feelings. We aren't talking about testing new things or rotating players, you are suggesting literally stopping all serious effort in the event to alter the outcome. That is unsportsmanlike.

[Serif]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Tyche]

In the years I've watched and played sports, I've never heard of a backlash from a team easing up after a commanding lead. Never heard of the losing team/fans/coaches call them out. Never. I think you have a very skewed view of sportsmanship.

[Serif]

If anything I was the best in showing what sportsmanship was like on my team. I never got angry, spoke up against refs, technicals.

But it seems like everyone who is arguing has never played sports in their life. Shit like this happens all the time. Does it make it right? No. It still happens and I am still blaming the schools and parents.

If he would of started benching players and sitting them out for a game or two on what you said earlier, he would of been getting chewed out by parents and they would of been calling for his head.

That is where my damned if you do, damned if you don't comment comes in.

I would rather play a team that beats me 156-0 than 100-0 because they felt sorry for me.

[aurik]

If he would of started benching players and sitting them out for a game or two on what you said earlier, he would of been getting chewed out by parents and they would of been calling for his head.

Part of being a coach is being able to take this heat and still making the Right Decision when game time comes.

[Serif]

Part of being a coach is being able to take this heat and still making the Right Decision when game time comes.

Thanks for the motto that every coach taps before he walks out the door!

Of course it is about taking the heat and doing the right thing, never said he shouldn't do it.

I just said he is damned he plays them and he is damned if he doesn't.