AV video solved? - Torque Theory Only

[Hogie]

So I guess because Astute Cape has Ninjutsu Skill on it that Ninja suddenly gets lumped in with the mages. Not to mention that Dark Skill on the Merciful Cape seeing as Dark Knights wear that crown. Look, I'm not saying including the capes is a worthless test, but this thread about testing 2 hours with the torques which, to me at least, makes a hell of a lot more sense.

No i never said that did i? Dont put words in my mouth. All i said is that Capes could play a role if in fact Torques do as well.

[Ramses]

The Alliance

Tank Party x2
Paladin/Ninja x2, White Mage/Scholar, Red Mage/White Mage, Bard/White Mage, Scholar/Red Mage

Mirror Party
Warrior, Monk, Dark Knight, Ranger, Samurai, Scholar/White Mage

Outside Party
Black Mage x5, Corsair

More Rangers kept outside the alliance as required.

Formation

.........................AV
...........PLD......................PLD
(5ft)...........PLD..........PLD



(15ft)................Mirror




(30ft)............... Mages

Only Paladins will get hit with Auroral Wind and Impact Stream, their supporters will have to remove Silence and Erase quickly. All of the Mirror Party and Scholars will be hit with Aeroga IV, and will recast Stoneskin after each cast. This will spread Aeroga IV damage across 11 people, just in case 1 person is missed, minimizing the damage to the Paladins.

Dealing with 2 hour abilities.

Invincible, Perfect Dodge, Familiar, Mijin Gakure, and Astral Flow are ignored.
Mighty Strikes, Benediction, Blood Weapon, and Eagle Eye Shot are tanked as per normal, but mirrored by the appropriate member of the Mirror Party or Tank Party.
Hundred Fists is mirrored by the Monk, and 1 Paladin will use any and all job abilities they require to survive it, including Invincible.
Soul Voice, Chainspell, and Manafont will require Rangers to use Shadowbind, and swap out for another Ranger to outlast the duration of the ability. This should not require more than 2 Rangers with proper coordination, although 4 may be required if 2 of these abilities are used in succession. Once the ability is used, one Paladin should generate as much Enmity as possible to hold Absolute Virtue in place, while everyone else runs out of range to wait out the ability. The appropriate party members will mirror these abilities, so hopefully a Black Mage is able to be swapped into the main alliance before Manafont is used.
Call Wyvern
At the start of the fight, the Black Mages will manaburn the Wynavs once they are spawned.
Once all of the abilities are locked which need to be, a kiter will kite one Wynav around while Black Mages continue to manaburn the Wynavs spawned.
When Absolute Virtue starts spawning 6 Wynavs, 2 more kiters will kite two more Wynavs.
These kiters will be members of the Mirror Party who have successfully mirrored their 2 hour ability and have changed jobs if needed.

Killing Absolute Virtue

After the above process is completed, Absolute Virtue will only be able to use Perfect Dodge, Invincible, Familiar, Call Wyvern, Mijin Gakure, and Astral Flow. With the Black Mage party swapped into the alliance, they need only to keep enough MP to kill Wynavs while nuking Absolute Virtue down with the element of the day of the week.

I don't believe the torques have anything to do with locking the 2 hour abilities, but I won't let personal opinion interfere with the scientific process, so equip your alliance members with the appropriate torques.

Edit: To prove an ability is locked, Absolute Virtue needs to use any other ability at least 20 times, at that point it becomes improbable that he can use it.
Number of times ability not used : probability he can use it
92%
84%
77%
71%
65%
59%
54%
50%
46%
42%
38%
35%
32%
30%
27%
25%
23%
21%
19%
18%
16%
At 21 uses of another ability, the point becomes probably true.

Yes, this is pretty much what I was saying, just a few things to add. I would stick the mirror party and mages on the opposite side of plds. This way during manafont, the pld (being the target of meteor) is running in the opposite direction as everyone else to maximize distance. Also don't forget fealty. You could also have the dd/nin melee for some damage behind AV since AV aoe moves are absorbed and the rest are single target and cone. You also didn't mention meikyo shisui. Up to you if you want to shadowbind or deal with it, but it can be rough. Also might want to shadowbind hundred fists, but up to you.

The other thing we need observed is how long between AV two hours. There was some evidence that he used his two hours less and less frequently when he was mirrored. It was something that was never fully proved or disproved and can easily be observed while testing torque theory.

[Hogie]

You seriously have to be trolling at this point. If you end up being right, then go shout it from tallest mountain, but what has been discussed here goes back to the torques and is based on an empirical observation made in the past not simply what makes the most sense. Frankly if it was what makes the most sense, we should have found it by now, right?

I know what your saying and i understand that the torque theory is based on a observation, but why couldn't take in to account the skill of on the torque rather then the person who can use the weapon? Polearm skill is on the torque as well right? Either way i dont want to argue about the skill part because lets be honest, arguing over 2 opinions leads to nothing very fast.

And yes of course i was exaggerating about a PLD using a Staff or Club, i was just making a point.

[Ultimagi]

You can't run from Absolute Virtue, he has Draw In.
In all of our attempts, one of our members recorded 2 hours used, with Time Stamp, and they were a set time apart, regardless of mirroring. I think it was 45 seconds, but it might have been 1 minute.
I totally forgot about Meikyo Shisui, for that I think just have the Mirror Party back up so they don't get hit with Jump. Other than that it's not that big of a problem.

[Auronku]

You can't run from Absolute Virtue, he has Draw In.
In all of our attempts, one of our members recorded 2 hours used, with Time Stamp, and they were a set time apart, regardless of mirroring. I think it was 45 seconds, but it might have been 1 minute.
I totally forgot about Meikyo Shisui, for that I think just have the Mirror Party back up so they don't get hit with Jump. Other than that it's not that big of a problem.

This is something I was going to bring up is, with the new Draw In distance AV got not too long ago, does a Shadowbind strategy even to mitigate a short spurt in damage still hold? I don't recall how far you can get away from him before he does Draw In now, but I don't remember it being that far.

[Ultimagi]

It's pretty far, the Draw In effect only happens outside casting range etc.
You can't use Shadowbind alone to survive any of these things, but it can help since you don't have to deal with melee damage. You would just have to have 1 Paladin in casting range taking everything like a man while healers keep him/her alive.

[Linktri]

This is being made too complicated. The answer is not this hard. Dark Ixion and the Pandemonium Warden were both figured out by the player base in short order compared to Absolute Virtue.

There are three major problems in dealing with Absolute Virtue.
1. Measuring changes to AVs behavior is hard to do because he's so powerful. You might lock a few two-hours (if that's even possible) but if you lock Benediction, and wipe to Manafont a few minutes later, you'll never know if the lock was effective. There doesn't seem to be any confirmation during the fight that the strategy is effective.
2. Solutions to problems like this are simple. We're overthinking everything. Analyzing every last piece of data to the smallest detail.
3. Everyone wants to be the one with the biggest e-peen on their block for figuring it out. Everyone with a half assed theory (myself included) is going to post and be mercilessly flamed for it. This is going to distract from solid theories by distracting everyone and skewing any legitimate discussion into a tangent and shit up every thread out there.

This has once again, gone fucking nowhere.

1. Nuke element same as day.
2. Put on the torques and weapons and pop some 2hrs in response to AVs.
Survive?
> Yes = Win.
> No = Wrong fucking strat. Adjust or abandon the original theory and move on.

[Ultimagi]

As far as I can see, we've (using WE loosely) developed a way of holding Absolute Virtue with minimal difficulty as long as it doesn't use Manafont, Chainspell, or Soul Voice. And with some skill, even these can be survived. That's at least a basis for performing some tests. That doesn't look like nothing.

[Auronku]

The worst case scenario for the player base would be that this does in fact lock the 2 hours, but only temporarily or only done under the right conditions. Hopefully there will be enough attempts that we could get around even this, but as it stands, no one really has any patience with this guy anymore and it largely goes back to problem #1 you described.

[Ramses]

You can't run from Absolute Virtue, he has Draw In.
In all of our attempts, one of our members recorded 2 hours used, with Time Stamp, and they were a set time apart, regardless of mirroring. I think it was 45 seconds, but it might have been 1 minute.
I totally forgot about Meikyo Shisui, for that I think just have the Mirror Party back up so they don't get hit with Jump. Other than that it's not that big of a problem.

I completely forgot about the new draw in. That does make manafont even a little worse, but it shouldn't effect the others too much. Plds are going to have to eat more meteors now. It will be very important to get shadows up for comet and I've seen fealty reduce meteor to as low as 200 damage.

[Darwinion]

This is being made too complicated. The answer is not this hard. Dark Ixion and the Pandemonium Warden were both figured out by the player base in short order compared to Absolute Virtue.

There are three major problems in dealing with Absolute Virtue.
1. Measuring changes to AVs behavior is hard to do because he's so powerful. You might lock a few two-hours (if that's even possible) but if you lock Benediction, and wipe to Manafont a few minutes later, you'll never know if the lock was effective. There doesn't seem to be any confirmation during the fight that the strategy is effective.
2. Solutions to problems like this are simple. We're overthinking everything. Analyzing every last piece of data to the smallest detail.
3. Everyone wants to be the one with the biggest e-peen on their block for figuring it out. Everyone with a half assed theory (myself included) is going to post and be mercilessly flamed for it. This is going to distract from solid theories by distracting everyone and skewing any legitimate discussion into a tangent and shit up every thread out there.

This has once again, gone fucking nowhere.

1. Nuke element same as day.
2. Put on the torques and weapons and pop some 2hrs in response to AVs.
Survive?
> Yes = Win.
> No = Wrong fucking strat. Adjust or abandon the original theory and move on.

^^ This. Quoted for truth.

Then again I'm not contributing anything positive right now... so this is just a +1 post

[Linktri]

When AV uses Chainspell, Popumyomapu uses Manafont, Hina uses Soul Voice and Chikiki uses Chainspell. Less then 5 min later, Popumyonmapu uses Manafont again after AV uses Soulvoice.

This was noted a long time ago. I proposed the following pattern at that time.

A. AV Chainspell > 2hr opened
B. Popumyomapu Manafont > 2hr recharged on following trigger
C. Hina Soul Voice > 2hr trigger
A. Chikiki Chainspell > 2hr to close

(Five minutes later)

C. AV Soulvoice > 2hr trigger
B. Popumyonmapu Manafont > 2hr recharged

As I recall, the rest of the video didn't bear the theory out as illustrated above.

[Virtuous Saint]

Yes i understand what the theory is, what im trying to tell you is that you cant fucking LOCK his 2 hours. I understand that what i originally said isnt THE ANSWER, im just saying its something that CAN BE TRIED AS WELL. In the video's he uses Soul Voice at two different points in the fight so good fucking luck making him not use it.

First of all, you can lock 2hrs that is just a simple fact. You do realize the video is a guide, a 'hint' as to what a weakness to AV is, and SE didn't create that video to show you exactly how to lock, and show you a locked 2hr.

If they wanted to let the player base know exactly how to kill AV they wouldn't give simple hints for years, and they 100% would not make a video out of their own time to show you the exact way to kill AV. If SE wanted the player base to not find it out on their own, and instead be given direct answers they would have had no video, but instead given a detailed (or simple) statement of how you lock AV's 2hrs. Also they did have infinite 2hr usage in the video probably because 1: they wanted to eliminate what could have been 10hr+ in locking, and 2: to simply show the player base what it is that must be done in some fashion to lock AV's 2hrs, and the best way was to show in chat log everyone using 2hrs after AV did. They zoom in on chat log for two things; 1: Elemental Magic of current day; 2: 2hr usage after AV, if anyone can't realize that by now they must be blind or stupid, I am terribly sorry.

This thread is based off of 1 theory, and it is a good theory. Apparently you need explained what this theory is: All jailers drop both a weapon and a torque, the theory is that in looking at the jobs that can use the weapon off a certain jailer, you equip those jobs with the torque that is found on the same jailer.

[Hanyoko]

@Hogie

Well AV may or may not be able to have 2hrs locked. Bugs/glitches/random events seem to state otherwise

Again I turn towards the CoP dynamis zones (which were before AV)
Bub: AB uses every 2hr unless you 'seal' them
Qufim: Has immunities unless you 'unseal' them
Valk: Can use abilities without TP unless you 'seal' them

Your cape theory might have merit; but for the time being there is a higher probability that Torques are the answer.

[Ultimagi]

if anyone can't realize that by now they must be blind or stupid

This, this, and more this.

[Virtuous Saint]

@Hogi

Well AV may or may not be able to have 2hrs locked. Bugs/glitches/random events seem to state otherwise

Again I turn towards the CoP dynamis zones (which were before AV)
Bub: AB uses every 2hr unless you 'seal' them
Qufim: Has immunities unless you 'unseal' them
Valk: Can use abilities without TP unless you 'seal' them

Your cape theory might have merit; but for the time being there is a higher probability that Torques are the answer.

See this guy is smart, he puts things together to assume the fact. (seriously)

[Virtuous Saint]

I have been wondering something for a long time, and I always have filters active when doing Apoc Beast, but does anyone know if it 'readies' 2hrs, after they are locked, or are all 'readies'?

[Hanyoko]

Been awhile; but from the AV thread #3521342 they are all "readies" but nothing happens if you sealed that ability.

[Ashira]

No i never said that did i? Dont put words in my mouth. All i said is that Capes could play a role if in fact Torques do as well.

The point of the Torque discussion is that the WEAPONS, including a random staff which has PUP on it, when no other new job was put on a weapon, drop from Jailers, as do TORQUES.

Capes don't drop from mobs that drop weapons.

[Auronku]

Not to get all theory-minded on you guys but just to ask if everyone is on the same page. At roughly the 2:15 Mark in the NA video, Elmaulle the PLD uses Invincible at approximately 23:59 on iceday or basically right before the day changes. Do we have any explanation for why the 2 hour is thrown in there or are they just zooming in to note the day change? I guess it's possible the Invincible was just used for pure tanking purposes because the other Paladin dies shortly after.