AV video solved? - Torque Theory Only

[Virtuous Saint]

Been awhile; but from the AV thread #3521342 i believe they are all "readies" then "uses"

Quetion was about Apoc Beast not AV, if this was in response to my question. sorry><

[tonystigma]

I can't wait til Vanatsu updates so we can speculate more! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D /wrists

[Virtuous Saint]

Not to get all theory-minded on you guys but just to ask if everyone is on the same page. At roughly the 2:15 Mark in the NA video, Elmaulle the PLD uses Invincible at approximately 23:59 on iceday or basically right before the day changes. Do we have any explanation for why the 2 hour is thrown in there or are they just zooming in to note the day change? I guess it's possible the Invincible was just used for pure tanking purposes because the other Paladin dies shortly after.

Pure tanking purposes likely.

[Hanyoko]

Quetion was about Apoc Beast not AV, if this was in response to my question. sorry><

I need to use the "quote" button more

But yea AB readies the 2hr. They just do nothing if its sealed

*edit*

Its old info that apparently was lost in the server change. Boss behavior from CoP dynamis was largely decided to be some form of testbed prior to AV.

[Deader2818]

According to this one Dynamis shell I was in, you don't "lock" AB's 2HRs, it just uses a weaker version of it.


Butttt, Im pretty sure they are just retarded as ive seen it "Readies" but then nothing happens and I think it actually stuns it for a sec or 2 when it can't use it.

[Auronku]

Yeah I guess the tanking thing would make the most sense. The way the do the zoom though almost forces you to look at the Invincible first and not notice the day changing.

[Virtuous Saint]

I need to use the "quote" button more

But yea AB readies the 2hr. They just do nothing if its sealed

See that is exactly what I wished to know, thank you. Apoc Beast readies all 2hrs, and they do not get off if he is locked, this is why my theory is based on AV's 2hrs being locked when they are 'readies', there is even an animation when he readies, there is not when he uses, and yes when he readies there is also 'uses' a few seconds later in chat log, this is the same for any kind of TP move, first readies then uses in chat log, but i'm not stating a theory here, I like this thread's theory, I can't wait for it to be tested. We will test if no one has before our next AV.

[Ashira]

Also, you want to avoid trying to put in TOO many factors at a time, or you can't figure out what did or did NOT work with a theory. You are trying way too hard to put too many determining factors in to make people try, when first, they should just try something with torques. Whether it be the person matching the 2hr wearing the torque that matches their job's jailer weapon, or any job on the jailer weapon using their 2hr when another 2hr on that weapon is used while wearing the torque that goes with the weapon... right now, it's just torques with corresponding jobs to the weapon.

Or maybe not even that much. Maybe anyone 2hring just has to have SOME sort of sea torque on. We only speculate with the jobs currently because of 2 reasons: one DRG had a Love Torque, and PUP is on Hope Staff. It just so happened that the DRG's Torque matches the weapon DRG is also listed on, etc.

No weapons. No cape factors. No readies vs uses, no open/close 2hr etc.

If it doesn't work, then you can add in another factor, like pairing up with weapons, or trying out capes, etc etc until torques are fully proven or disproven.

[Virtuous Saint]

Yeah I guess the tanking thing would make the most sense. The way the do the zoom though almost forces you to look at the Invincible first and not notice the day changing.

Yes but they zoom in to show the Black Mages changing the elemental spell they are nuking from ice to lightning on account of the day change, not the 2hr, it was merely a tanking decision if you ask me.

[Virtuous Saint]

According to this one Dynamis shell I was in, you don't "lock" AB's 2HRs, it just uses a weaker version of it.


Butttt, Im pretty sure they are just retarded as ive seen it "Readies" but then nothing happens and I think it actually stuns it for a sec or 2 when it can't use it.

Exactly, you see 'Apoc Beast readies 2hr' then there is a moment of stun or such, similar to when it trys to ready WS you have locked, this is exactly what I believe happens to AV when you lock his 2hrs; 'Absolute Virtue readies Chainspell' > moment of stun (also animation type stun) 2hr does not get off > you do not see 'Absolute Virtue uses Chainspell' moments after, where you do when it is not locked. You can clearly see the animation difference in one of the demo ls's videos, and of the SE EN video of readies chainspell. I believe when locked, AV will attempt to 'readies' 2hrs but not be able to get them off, just as Apoc Beast does. Yes I know other random mobs readies 2hrs, there is no way to know why; even PW readies astral flow.

[Ramses]

Exactly, you see 'Apoc Beast readies 2hr' then there is a moment of stun or such, similar to when it trys to ready WS you have locked, this is exactly what I believe happens to AV when you lock his 2hrs; 'Absolute Virtue readies Chainspell' > moment of stun (also animation type stun) 2hr does not get off > you do not see 'Absolute Virtue uses Chainspell' moments after, where you do when it is not locked. You can clearly see the animation difference in one of the demo ls's videos, and of the SE EN video of readies chainspell. I believe when locked, AV will attempt to 'readies' 2hrs but not be able to get them off, just as Apoc Beast does. Yes I know other random mobs readies 2hrs, there is no way to know why; even PW readies astral flow.

What would make that a slam dunk is if AV readied in the video, but then it not go off. But then that would make the video useful. Do you happen to remember which Demo video? I still have all 7 of them saved on my laptop.

[Virtuous Saint]

What would make that a slam dunk is if AV readied in the video, but then it not go off. But then that would make the video useful. Do you happen to remember which Demo video? I still have all 7 of them saved on my laptop.

I want to say video 3, it was the first 2hr, Perfect Dodge, I have not watched it for a while, not 100% on it being 3, but it was like a min into one of them, and it was perfect dodge, it is the most clearly visible, on video readies animation.

[Auronku]

Hate to bring up more SE video stuff but I noticed what could potentially be a flaw in the torque theory, although this could easily be attributed to the fact that they're fighting "the old" AV and he had to be locked several times.

The first 2 hour it shows AV using is the Soul Voice to which everyone responds by going crazy with 2 hours. The response includes a RDM using Chainspell.

Later on in the video AV both readies and uses Chainspell. One of the 3 things would have to be true in this case:
A) The old AV had to be locked several times - makes sense because of the comments made by SE that it should be a 10 hour fight
B) The Red Mage using Chainspell didn't have a torque equipped - unlikely and no way we could prove either way
C) The theory doesn't hold

[Day]

Hate to bring up more SE video stuff but I noticed what could potentially be a flaw in the torque theory, although this could easily be attributed to the fact that they're fighting "the old" AV and he had to be locked several times.

The first 2 hour it shows AV using is the Soul Voice to which everyone responds by going crazy with 2 hours. The response includes a RDM using Chainspell.

Later on in the video AV both readies and uses Chainspell. One of the 3 things would have to be true in this case:
A) The old AV had to be locked several times - makes sense because of the comments made by SE that it should be a 10 hour fight
B) The Red Mage using Chainspell didn't have a torque equipped - unlikely and no way we could prove either way
C) The theory doesn't hold

or
D) Video out of chronological order
E) Lockout only lasts certain amount of time.

[Hanyoko]

or
D) Video out of chronological order
E) Lockout only lasts certain amount of time.

F) much like the SE BLM that nuked with the wrong element; the person screwed up their 2hr usage.

[Virtuous Saint]

The problem is, no one knows how or why it goes to readies. Before they patched AV (2hr limit) we fought AV for roughly 20-30min before dying to the third manafont (due to lack of PLDs with fealty up, 1PLD solo tanking does not work, need 2 at all times during manafonts, both with fealty active), after everyone was leaving ect. I decided to mess around with it some more, (I would fight it all day) and I used powder boots, and ran off with it chasing me. The next 2hr was 'Absolute Virtue readies Blood Weapon' I, along with another member continued to do this for roughly 30min to an hour, and every single 2hr during that time was 'readies'. Finally after about 10-15, 'Absolute Virtue readies Lateral Slash' > 'Absolute Virtue uses Hundred Fists', from there on (literally continued for hr or more after, every single 2hr was 'uses'. Why, I do not know, but it appeared to be in what could only be described as a 'readies' mode.

[TummieGaruda]

I want to say video 3, it was the first 2hr, Perfect Dodge, I have not watched it for a while, not 100% on it being 3, but it was like a min into one of them, and it was perfect dodge, it is the most clearly visible, on video readies animation.

I remember a while back there was some talk about Uses vs Readies. I have to find the video but SA on Garuda posted some videos of their attempts after SE released their video. In SA's video, you can clearly see "AV Readies" multiple times. It was from this video that a lot of people speculated that AV could use 2HR's as a TP move, or some sort of retaliation to doing something wrong such as nuking/enfeeling with the wrong element according to the day.

Example from the Video:
Iceday if i remember correctly

Everything is going ok, COR uses Thundershot
AV Readies Perfect dodge

[Virtuous Saint]

I remember a while back there was some talk about Uses vs Readies. I have to find the video but SA on Garuda posted some videos of their attempts after SE released their video. In SA's video, you can clearly see "AV Readies" multiple times. It was from this video that a lot of people speculated that AV could use 2HR's as a TP move, or some sort of retaliation to doing something wrong such as nuking/enfeeling with the wrong element according to the day.

Example from the Video:
Iceday if i remember correctly

Everything is going ok, COR uses Thundershot
AV Readies Perfect dodge

Ya but it isn't a TP move, or a retaliation, because it used them just as frequently, and with the same job, same spell cast to pull AV, and kite when I did the run > sacking, and it was doing 'readies' as I described in my last post. I do not know how to get it to do it tho, just random luck as far as I could tell.

[Lordwafik]

If it doesn't work, then you can add in another factor, like pairing up with weapons, or trying out capes, etc etc until torques are fully proven or disproven.

All magics listed on capes! Wearing capes stops him from using said magic! (ok I'm done).

According to this one Dynamis shell I was in, you don't "lock" AB's 2HRs, it just uses a weaker version of it.


Butttt, Im pretty sure they are just retarded as ive seen it "Readies" but then nothing happens and I think it actually stuns it for a sec or 2 when it can't use it.

Yeah, they are retarded as I've fought it plenty and he completely skips the 2hours you lock him out of.

[Auronku]

Just attempted a test revolving around the torques and 2 hours here on Odin. Long story short it doesn't look like it works. Will post more as I can collect the information in a better format.