AV video solved? - Torque Theory Only

[Ramses]

fixed lol still playing with AV

Did you kill the wynavs? And yes, they changed the draw in when they reduced hp and made it two hour despawn. Tanks have to be able to deal with two hours.

[TummieGaruda]

Is this how the following torques were assigned?


BLM - Prudence Torque
MNK - Faith Torque
DRK - Fortitude Torque
DRG - Didn't use Two Hour
PLD - Justice Torque
RDM - Faith Torque

If so, this is but a long shot in the dark.
You say you were stuck on the same Rotation of HF, CS, CW. If you look at the above list, DRG didn't two hour, so possibly no lock on that. Then if you look at both RDM and MNK, they both used the same torque, and it may be a No-No to use two of the same torques in the two hour nulling them and causing them to be active. It's just a thought.

[Kenji]

Ok we had a few members with torq's

Blm
Mnk
Drk
Drg
Pld
Rdm (With a faith troq, tested anyways)

When we started he did HF right off the bat, thats when our Blm,Drk,Mnk,Pld,Rdm (With faith) two houred. Our drg didn't two hour because she didn't see it happen.

After this point He was locked between 3 differant two hours.

did them in this order: HF,CS,CW over and over.

He did not do any other two hours but these in a cycle 4 times.

AV used Hundred Fists and Chainspell until we were all dead. The DRG didn't use Call Wyvern at first, but used it later. AV was hymnus sacked until we were all up and unweakened. When we were ready to go again, AV finally did Call Wyvern. We Ga'ed the pets as we engaged. Hundred Fists and Chainspell followed again until we all wiped again.

The 3 two-hours he used over and over, belonged to the grouping of 2 hours that were used in response to him. So it seems to me, the puzzle is in using your two hours in such a way, that you make AV only use the easy two hours you can deal with. AV with no two-hours would be too easy, of course, so I don't think you can remove them all.

So, you show him your 2 hours. Does he pick from them? Can you force him to choose specific ones? Or do specific 2 hours have a higher priority than others with respect to AV? Ie, doing Benediction and Manafont in response, will force AV to pick Benediction over Manafont every time?

[TummieGaruda]

If possible I think this result should be replicated making sure the DRG 2hr's the first time around. If it can be replicated, then that means it's not random and there is some deciding factor that locks the 2HR's.

[Gtype954]

Originally Posted by Yabby
When we started he did HF right off the bat, thats when our Blm,Drk,Mnk,Pld,Rdm (With faith) two houred. Our drg didn't two hour because she didn't see it happen.

After this point He was locked between 3 differant two hours.

did them in this order: HF,CS,CW over and over.

Maybe instead of locking a 2hr, a torque makes him more likely to choose the torque wearer's 2hr?

Maybe because he (rdm) used the wrong torque, It caused AV to chainspell.
Maybe Because your DRG missed the 2 hour, That AV kept using call wyvern.

But Why did AV keep using Hundred Fists... We need 3 consistencies.
Did Your mnk have ANY torque on, Did he have Cape on, Did He use his 2 hr First or Last out of your entire group. (which could help predict if he went too early or too late). What could the mnk have messed up on that caused AV to Keep using HF as well.

EDIT: What Torques were the jobs Wearing. if it wasnt alrdy shown. (besides rdm)

Maybe Using the wrong torque would make him keep that 2 hr.
At this time, We don't know if you LOCKED the 2 hours, Or if you PICKED his 2 hrs. Wonder if all his 2 hrs can be unlocked except for 3 of them, but then that wouldnt explain why SE didn't bring those remaining jobs for swap.

I Just read tummies post and Wonder If you purposely wear 2 of the same torque on 2 ppl and use a weak 2 hr like Soul Voice and EES, would be be stuck with those 2.

[tymora]

Possible to see the order of the 2 hours? From a comparison of logs perhaps...

[Yabby]

ok our second test didn't go well because he manafonted right off the bat to metor. so... yea... bastard

[Suiram]

Tried tonight, nothing locked it seems. His first 2H was SV, at which point almost everyone 2hed, whether they had a cape or torque or not (we told people to use the cape/torque from Radiance theory if they had it, if not use the JPButton theory if they had that, if not use any torque or cape, if not just 2H regardless). Interestingly, the next 3 2Hs he used corresponded to exactly the 3 melee jobs we had in alliance, SAM > DRG > MNK. After that he used some that we didn't have there, RNG and MNK, but by that point a couple people had died due to him moving > AoE during Meikyo and HF tanks later, so even if we did lock anything (which I doubt), he may have reset?

Nothing really interesting about the fight except for the choice of 2Hs I mentioned. Yabby's posts were while we were mid-JoL, so I had hoped we'd have similar results.

[Yabby]

Maybe because he (rdm) used the wrong torque, It caused AV to chainspell.
Maybe Because your DRG missed the 2 hour, That AV kept using call wyvern.

But Why did AV keep using Hundred Fists... We need 3 consistencies.
Did Your mnk have ANY torque on, Did he have Cape on, Did He use his 2 hr First or Last out of your entire group. (which could help predict if he went too early or too late). What could the mnk have messed up on that caused AV to Keep using HF as well.

EDIT: What Torques were the jobs Wearing. if it wasnt alrdy shown. (besides rdm)

Maybe Using the wrong torque would make him keep that 2 hr.
At this time, We don't know if you LOCKED the 2 hours, Or if you PICKED his 2 hrs. Wonder if all his 2 hrs can be unlocked except for 3 of them, but then that wouldnt explain why SE didn't bring those remaining jobs for swap.

I Just read tummies post and Wonder If you purposely wear 2 of the same torque on 2 ppl and use a weak 2 hr like Soul Voice and EES, would be be stuck with those 2.

The mnk has faith torque on.

No capes were used during this test, only torques.

The mnk was the 1st on to two hour.

I guess we can mimic this test the same way again to see what happens. We need to farm up a few sets again before we can test.

Drk (Justice)
Mnk (Faith)
Rdm (Faith)
Blm (Prud)
Pld (fort)
Drg (Love)

[Zhane]

What we need to decifer from this:

Does using a 2hour lock him into a repeating sequence of only a few 2hours? Does using a torque lock him into sequence? Does using corresponding torque represented by the jailers lock AV?

Obviously you get the idea, and I'm sure everyone can think of more. But when testing this are the questions we need to solely focus on. Yes, answering these one at a time is tedious but we've been at this for three years +. Now we have a potential lead. So, I think the reward will be greater than the burden leading to it.

[TummieGaruda]

I Just read tummies post and Wonder If you purposely wear 2 of the same torque on 2 ppl and use a weak 2 hr like Soul Voice and EES, would be be stuck with those 2.

This is what I am interested in because SV, EES, Familiar are pretty manageable 2HR's to deal with.

[Yabby]

O shit sorry one important thing that i forgot, might just be coincidence but o well. He did use HF and CS, we were killed on the second HF, in which our drg used two hour/CW. We then wiped to HF. I was sacking him to keep him up and during one of the sacks he did use CW.

I'm thinking him mirroring us is closer than locking a two hour sense he wasn't using other two hours that we didn't use.

[tymora]

That would make sense since we had everyone 2hour and AV was spamming all sorts of them lol...

I fonted at the end and we wiped with meteor. Have Prudence on. Apart from that, fights were too confusing for me in the side alliance to see what is happening.

I think LSes should put aside differences and test continuously on a single AV to glean more info. (As in, one LS go in test stuff, wipe and have another one go.)

[thetruepandagod]

This is what I am interested in because SV, EES, Familiar are pretty manageable 2HR's to deal with.

I'm sry but what about SV is a weak 2hr? It's probably one of the worst considering this is a timed fight now... ideally you should want his only 2hrs to be MS,EES,PD.

Also im just curious its kind of hard to tell but was this torque theory thrown out and went back to the original torque theory(BLM - prudence torque etc)? Or is the one below still in need of testing?

Jailer of Temperence = SAM
Jailer of Fortitude = PLD
Jailer of Faith = BLM
Jailer of Hope = WAR
Jailer of Justice, Pets = BST, NIN
Jailer of Prudence = THF
Jailer of Love = SMN
Ix'MNK, pets = MNK, RDM, WHM
Ix'DRK, pets = DRK, RNG
Ix'DRG, pets = DRG, BRD

[Suiram]

I'll agree SV isn't an ideal 2H, but it actually isn't as bad as I remember it being. Charm is not very long, only like 20 seconds? Was too early in the fight to tell if it was a full hate reset or a petrify-style temporary hate reset, although I'd guess full, which would mean it would be less fun as the fight wears on.

Another thing I meant to mention above, which I'm sure has been brought up before but I totally missed if it was, is that the wynavs have considerably lower HP. I think before it took 7-8 ga3s to bring them down? Now it's like 3, I would recommend people just plan to kill them instead of kite them to updraft or whatever.

[Flic]

On our next attempt i'll get someone to take a log, and ill make sure to post it, regardless of outcome, someone may pick up something I am missing or may see something thats happened in thier attempts but haven't thought anything of it.

Also Suiram, yes the pets are easyier to just kill now which is a bonus, I guess lol.

[Suiram]

Well I bring it up because we had people kiting them off as a part of our plan, but they got separated and two wandered back so we were like "okay we have to kill these" and they died so easily lol, had I known we would have just planned to kill them from the outset.

[Yabby]

The pets are too easy to kill now, a single blm can one shot them with the right day.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Jailer of Temperence = SAM
Jailer of Fortitude = PLD
Jailer of Faith = BLM
Jailer of Hope = WAR
Jailer of Justice, Pets = BST, NIN
Jailer of Prudence = THF
Jailer of Love = SMN
Ix'MNK, pets = MNK, RDM, WHM
Ix'DRK, pets = DRK, RNG
Ix'DRG, pets = DRG, BRD

That thought actually occurred to me last night. Example having anyone with a faith torque 2hr to avoid manafont because faith is a BLM. Didnt read through the entire post to see if that was part of the testing though.

[Yabby]

If that is true, it would make sense to the fact that our mnk two houred with faith on, and AV kept using HF, but never used MF during our 1st round of testing.

We had a justice, he never used bst or nin two hoursed (We did kill pets tho), but he also didn't use bloodweapon... possibly because the Xi'Drk doesn't have a torq?

We had a pld use two hour, wearing fortitude, but hes a pld anyways so it goes with both theory's.

Our drg using his two hour and CW to be sure, but used love. AV didn't use AF but once again we were killing the pets. If we go by the above statement with Xi'drk he shouldn't of been doing CW sense Ix'Drg doesn't have a torq. Which leaves us with the thought hes picking a select few from whatever two hours we show him. If you don't show him any he might have access to all.

Like i said we were going to redo the test with the same two hours/people, but our second try AV just manafonted right off the bat, which means even if we figure out how to lock most of his dangerous two hours, its still about luck.