AV video solved? - Torque Theory Only

[kayn]

The solution has nothing to do with the stupid weapons.

[Lordwafik]

So where in the AV video does it even hint at this ? Just curious to show where SE gave us clues about equipping torques.

[arus2001]

Really, I don't think the video was trying to hint at equipment specifically. All we can assume was that 2 hours did something, but if in later incarnations of the mob the sea gear could augment those chances to a more reliable chance of victory as hinted by consideration for adding items to enfeeble him.

Admittedly, it's all vague based on a DRG having a torque on and AV possibly not opting to use Call Wyvern. Testing this wouldn't be the hard part. Just getting the people with the right jobs and torques would be.

[Liseth]

The solution has nothing to do with the stupid weapons.

This.

[Syntex]

So where in the AV video does it even hint at this ? Just curious to show where SE gave us clues about equipping torques.

It isn't but has SE ever been upfront about anything?

Also as far as we can tell the only things we know they are wearing is boots/pants/gloves/body/helm/weapon when they use a 2 hour so its possible they could be using a torque and given they are someone off the beaten path of what has been tested then I would say its possible.

I would also like to see the stones in the ammo slot tested with the torques as it might work if you have that on while using your 2 hour as I highly doubt anyone has tried that.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

If this is true, guess it is time to finally get hold of one of those Justice Swords for my RDM that I have been passing for 2 years >.> At least I have the torque already lol.

My LS has possibly 3 JoL coming up next month (assuming we can ever get stupid ix'drg and temp to pop -.- ) so I will be watching this thread with interest. Our JoLs last month were all about taking your deaths quick from AV so that we could pop the next set asap and get out of Sea lol.

I have a sword ali, give me the next justice torque and were golden :D

[Ultimagi]

Bah! I wanted credit for this!
I proposed this idea to my linkshell several months ago, and we tested it a couple of times. We have no evidence against it but insufficient evidence for it due to such a high margin of error. That and we just can't live against the stupid thing for more than 10 minutes.

[Valkrish]

so is there any more information regarding the linkshell that had it at 89%? or is that where the fight ended?

hi panda, znm last night was... Wonderful

[Ramses]

So where in the AV video does it even hint at this ? Just curious to show where SE gave us clues about equipping torques.

I thought this also. SE insisted on multiple occasions that everything we need is in the video and obviously torques are not. I'm trying not to be too negative though as I would like to see this stuff tested. The jailer weapons certainly are not in the video so I doubt they are needed.

[Attila]

This might explain why the fight COULD be (prior to the change of course) a 10 hour fight, upwards of 18. If you fail at locking the two-hours, I could definitely see it extending a fight far into ridiculousness, if only for having to wait longer to attempt at locking 2 hours again.

But, how much of this has been fucked up/changed by the adjustment to him?

[Francisco]

I FIND IT VERY CONVENIENT THAT THIS ALL COMES ABOUT DURING THE BG FORUMS DONATION DRIVE!!! (just kidding)

It doesn't appear the weapons really matter(ed), so if the torque theory has any merit - you probably need to match the jobs on the corresponding weapon to the torque wearer.

Justice Torque can be worn by RDM, THF or PLD to lock Chainspell, Invincible or Perfect Dodge.

Of those, Chainspell is obviously the only bad one. Invincible and Perfect Dodge are just minor annoyances.

Hope Torque can be used by BRD and SMN to lock Soul Voice or Astral Flow... possibly PUP for some other reason.

Isn't Astral Flow pretty weak with the Wynavs? Soul Voice is pretty nasty though, as I think it causes Virelai spam.

Love Torque can be used by DRG and SAM to lock Call Wyvern or Meikyo Shisui.

Both are pretty nasty... but wynavs are a lot less dangerous if you take away Mijin Gakure

Faith Torque can be used by MNK and NIN to lock Hundred Fists or Mijin Gakure.

Hundred Fists can be dealt with via Sentinel, Invincible or Shadowbind... not sure how you can simply "match" Mijin Gakure...

Prudence Torque can be used by WHM and BLM to lock Benediction and Manafont.

Yeah, you'll want to lock both of these.

Temperance Torque can be used by BST and RNG to lock Familiar and Eagle Eye Shot.

Not sure how bad Familiar is, and EES shouldn't cause a wipe...

Fortitude Torque can be used by WAR and DRK to lock Mighty Strikes and Blood Weapon.

Neither of these are truly horrible, but nice to get rid of I guess.

[Saithorx]

Another idea is perhaps you do not need a RDM/THF/PLD to wear the justice torque, but it locks based on what the corresponding weapon jailor weapon. I'll just use DRK for examples.

ie. DRK uses Souleater with Justice Torque equipped which could lock Chainspell/Perfect Dodge/Invincible.
ie. DRK uses Souleater with Prudence Torque equipped which could lock Manafont/Benediction

Just another test that I might try and convince my sea LS to do if nothing is conclusive before we do JoL.

[TummieGaruda]

Since it was posted and watered down to:

Justice = RDM, PLD, THF = Chainspell, Invincible, Perfect Dodge
Prudence = WHM, BLM = Benediction, Manafont
Hope = BRD, SMN, PUP = Soul Voice, Astral Flow, Whatever
Faith = MNK, NIN = Hundred Fists, Mijin Gakure
Fortitude = WAR, DRK = Mighty Strikes, Blood Weapon
Temperance = BST, RNG = Charm, Eagle Eye Shot
Love = DRG, SAM = Call Wyvern, Meikyo Shisui

If this theory is correct, it raises a few questions that need to be tested.

Is it a match for match lock where you need to match the particular 2HR with the corresponding job+torque, or can you match any jobs 2HR in that particular group to lock out a specific 2HR early? Having to only match the 2HR means that Benediction and Astral Flow will cause problems if you have to sit there and wait for the 2HR in order to lock that particular one out.

On the other hand, if you only have to match any 2HR that belongs in that group, then that gives the alliance some room to lock out different 2HR's earlier in the fight and devise a stronger strategy. For instance:

Prudence = WHM, BLM = Benediction, Manafont

Since these two are paired together, what if you could lock out both or any of the two when AV uses Bene or Manafont? This would mean that when AV uses Manafont, a WHM with Prudence Torque could Bene to lock it out. For all we know if this theory holds true, we may only be able to lock out one 2HR per group which means that alliances would have to choose which 2HR's are less deadly and focus on the ones in the group pairing that give the most trouble.

Just based on personal experience and watching other LS's fight, I would want to lock these out of each group if you can only lock one:

Justice = RDM, PLD, THF = Chainspell, Invincible, Perfect Dodge
Prudence = WHM, BLM = Benediction, Manafont
Hope = BRD, SMN, PUP = Soul Voice, Astral Flow, Whatever
Faith = MNK, NIN = Hundred Fists, Mijin Gakure
Fortitude = WAR, DRK = Mighty Strikes, Blood Weapon
Temperance = BST, RNG = Charm, Eagle Eye Shot
Love = DRG, SAM = Call Wyvern, Meikyo Shisui

[Octavious]

ITT: finally a reason to get a Justice Torque on RDM (*^0^)/ but honestly this would be pretty cool if it worked. It's just kind of weird that the skill on the torques goes against the jobs recommended to wear them in some cases. Thats the only thing that stands out as awkward to me anyway.

[Spekkio]

this theory may seem like a reprisal of the same crap we've seen 400 times before, but it has a unique facet that makes it far more credible than 95% of the theorycraft people spew on a daily basis. the author has actually seen and fought AV. if that were a prereq for being able to open your trap with your "brilliant solution" for how to beat AV, we probably wouldn't all be sick of hearing the same pointless theories over and over again, nor would testing options like this slip through the cracks.

in addition, the author identifies (he thinks) a behavioral change in AV and attempts to link it to a cause by a process of isolation of variables. rather than identifying a behavior change and assuming what causes it, the author attempts to reduce the possible explanations for the behavior. this results in logic along the lines of "drivers who drive while drunk have a higher accident rate than those that do not. therefore, there is probably a link between driving drunk and car accidents." in contrast to the usual AV theory logic of "almost all drivers in car accidents have eaten carrots, therefore carrots must cause car accidents." while he's still presuming to some degree what's causing AV to no longer use call wyvern, he's at least reducing it to 2 players. one that can stop it and one that can't and trying to identify what's different.

[Yugl]

Was going to say something but seems pointless, seeing as you do not seem to understand the entire ele skill thing the way a blm should.

I don't, but so far his point is better than yours.

[Ultimagi]

This post will be edited to include the most up to date information.

This strategy assumes that mirroring Absolute Virtue's 2-hour abilities prevents him from using them again. It is also assumes that Call Wyvern in unblockable, since Absolute Virtue is a Dragoon, and 3 other 2-hours are only accessable with Wynavs alive.

<details about our tank party>

Mirror Party

At the beginning of the battle, this party needs to contain jobs used to reflect Absolute Virtue's 2-hour abilities, namely; Warrior, Monk, Dark Knight, Ranger, and Samurai. These members can be level 1, naked, and with any subjob, it really doesn't matter. Their only purpose is to use their 2-hour ability immediately after Absolute Virtue does. It is unknown if they need enmity for this to work, so subbing White Mage and casting cure on the Paladins might help. After any member of this party has used their 2-hour, they should disband and change their job to something more useful, and the party should invite an outside healer or black mage to help out.

<details about other alliance members and outside members>

Summary

We lock Absolute Virtue's use of Mighty Strikes, Hundred Fists, Benediction, Manafont, Chainspell, Blood Weapon, Soul Voice, Eagle Eye Shot, and Meikyo Shisui. This leaves him with only Perfect Dodge, Invincible, Call Wyvern, Familiar, Mijin Gakure, and Astral Flow, which is very managable.

Problems

Surviving Manafont is the biggest problem. It is unconfirmed, but from our last attempt, it seemed that Absolute Virtue's Meteor is not very large, and can be avoided while remaining just barely in casting range of the Paladins. So as soon as Manafont is used, everyone except the Paladins needs to get out of range and keep the Paladins alive for the entire duration. The tests with Fealty resisting Meteor have been inconclusive so far, but our Paladins have survived Meteor several times. They only died due to lack of support it seemed.

<more details about other stuff>

Posted on: 2008/10/29 7:17

Copied from my linkshell's forums.

Edit: 3 tests were performed, no evidence was gained to debunk.

[dejet]

all the people who are saying "rare drops its based off bla bla" so what? its meant to be a hard monster no?

also you would not need all of them. each would just help out the effect and make it that much easyer, some LS could kill him with just locking 2-3 of his JAs

[Tubbers]

Care to elaborate? Your summary claims that you actually locked these 2hrs, which I don't really believe. Was that the writeup of your plan or a writeup of the results?

[Neosutra]

Care to elaborate? Your summary claims that you actually locked these 2hrs, which I don't really believe. Was that the writeup of your plan or a writeup of the results?

I dont think he locked their 2 hours, and he by no means used torques. I think he was just posting some detailed information to show that his group was trying some things out in the past, as per the request of another poster.

What Im waiting on, is a test of someone fighting AV, with those jobs using those torques, and having them 2 hour when AV 2 hours (wether mirror 2 hour or just all 2 hour on some random AV 2hour and see if it locks). If this isnt tested by sat, Ill try it out.